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A Higgs-Bugson in the Linux Kernel

blog.janestreet.com

21–30 of 58 posts

Re: A Higgs-Bugson in the Linux Kernel

#21
Calling this a "Higgs-Bugson" doesn't make a lot of sense. There's nothing uncertain or difficult to reproduce about the Higgs.

The reason that it took so long to find was that the cross-section of production is very low, the decay signatures are hard to separate from the background, the specific energy scale it existed at was not well-defined, and building the LHC was (to put it mildly) difficult and expensive.

Roughly, if you'll forgive a bad analogy from a long-lapsed physicist, it was the equivalent of trying to find a very weak glow from a specific type of bug hiding at an unknown location in a huge field of corn. Except that your vision was very bad, so you had to invent a new type of previously-unimaginably excellent eyeglasses to see the thing. Also before you could even start looking you had to expend a painful amount of time and money building a flashlight so incredibly huge that it needed new types of cryogenic cooling inventing, just to stop it from melting when you switched it on.

If you had a software bug that you were almost certain was there, but you needed half of the world's GPU clusters for three years to locate and prove it, then that would be a Higgs-Bugson.

Re: A Higgs-Bugson in the Linux Kernel

#22
post #19

Didn't know jane street did tech writeups

It's a great recruitment device. It takes a certain kind of nerd to salivate over the glorious technical depths that such a write-up goes into, and for the kind of company who values this flavor of nerd, this is a great way to attract their attention.

Re: A Higgs-Bugson in the Linux Kernel

#23
Regarding NFS, I've always loved this quote from the CTO at a hedge fund I once worked at:

"NFS is lot like heroin:

at first, it seems amazing.

But then it ruins your life"

(This is a place that did almost EVERYTHING via NFS including different applications communicating via shared files on NFS mounts. It also had the weird setup of using BOTH Linux AND Windows permissions on NFS mounts shared between user desktops [windows] an servers [linux])

Re: A Higgs-Bugson in the Linux Kernel

#24
post #15

With millions of LoCs, it is no surprise there are bugs. Worse yet, the kernel runs in supervisor mode. This kernel design is bankrupt. There's much better available, such as seL4+Genode.

> This kernel design is bankrupt. There's much better available, such as seL4+Genode.

I am sure that the tech community would love to read the details of your great success in deploying microkernels for large variety of production workloads.

Re: A Higgs-Bugson in the Linux Kernel

#25

Regarding NFS, I've always loved this quote from the CTO at a hedge fund I once worked at: "NFS is lot like heroin: at first, it seems amazing. But then it ruins your life" (This is a place that did almost EVERYTHING via NFS including different applications communicating via shared files on NFS mounts. It also had the weird setup of using BOTH Linux AND Windows permissions on NFS mounts shared between user desktops […

The problem I have with reviews like these is that they're expressed in absolute terms. Yes, NFS might ruin my life, but if it ruins my life less than every other alternative, it's still a win.

Re: A Higgs-Bugson in the Linux Kernel

#26
post #25

Regarding NFS, I've always loved this quote from the CTO at a hedge fund I once worked at: "NFS is lot like heroin: at first, it seems amazing. But then it ruins your life" (This is a place that did almost EVERYTHING via NFS including different applications communicating via shared files on NFS mounts. It also had the weird setup of using BOTH Linux AND Windows permissions on NFS mounts shared between user desktops […

The problem I have with reviews like these is that they're expressed in absolute terms. Yes, NFS might ruin my life, but if it ruins my life less than every other alternative, it's still a win.

I'd go as far as saying most networked concurrent file access will ruin your life one way or another, because it's just a hard problem, and it's trying to solve it at a very odd layer; a "classic" fs can't really take advantage of higher layer transactional or other known constraints in order to make things work better…

Re: A Higgs-Bugson in the Linux Kernel

#27
post #20

I'd like to highlight this: >NFS with Kerberos secure, simple, battle tested. no crazy architecture works so well a bug showed up in the kernel :-)

> works so well a bug showed up in the kernel :-)

What exactly are you trying to highlight here? Most code has bugs. This one is someone forgetting to stick to actual behavior described in 1997, it's a mistake, mistakes happen. Which one of "secure", "simple", "battle tested" and "no crazy architecture" do you think this disproves?

Or do you think CIFS or Ceph have no bugs?

Re: A Higgs-Bugson in the Linux Kernel

#28
post #27
post #20

I'd like to highlight this: >NFS with Kerberos secure, simple, battle tested. no crazy architecture works so well a bug showed up in the kernel :-)

> works so well a bug showed up in the kernel :-) What exactly are you trying to highlight here? Most code has bugs. This one is someone forgetting to stick to actual behavior described in 1997, it's a mistake, mistakes happen. Which one of "secure", "simple", "battle tested" and "no crazy architecture" do you think this disproves? Or do you think CIFS or Ceph have no bugs?

I think they're saying typically the kernel one of the last places you'd expect the bug, so it shows that it is battle tested?

I don't think they're being snarky.

Re: A Higgs-Bugson in the Linux Kernel

#30
post #25

Regarding NFS, I've always loved this quote from the CTO at a hedge fund I once worked at: "NFS is lot like heroin: at first, it seems amazing. But then it ruins your life" (This is a place that did almost EVERYTHING via NFS including different applications communicating via shared files on NFS mounts. It also had the weird setup of using BOTH Linux AND Windows permissions on NFS mounts shared between user desktops […

The problem I have with reviews like these is that they're expressed in absolute terms. Yes, NFS might ruin my life, but if it ruins my life less than every other alternative, it's still a win.

Continuing the analogy, many people eventually discover that they used NFS because they didn’t understand their underlying problem clearly.
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