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U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

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Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#21

Post by photochemsyn »

hecanjog wrote: post #7
q3k wrote: post #3

Direct from the CSB: > The President’s Budget proposes $0 for CSB’s FY 2026 budget with the expectation that CSB begins closing down during FY 2025. CSB’s emergency fund of $844,145 will be appropriated to cover costs associated with closing down the agency. Exact closing costs will be determined upon consultation with OMB and Congress. Source: https://www.csb.gov/assets/1/6/csb_cj_2026.pdf

This claims the EPA and OSHA already perform the same duties, is that actually true?

No - "The CSB investigates industrial chemical accidents—not to assign blame, but to figure out why they happened and how to prevent them. No other federal agency does this kind of root cause analysis focused purely on safety improvement. OSHA and the EPA enforce rules, but they don’t specialize in deep, systems-based investigations like the CSB does."

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#22

Post by PostOnce »

z991 wrote: post #2

Their YouTube channel is equal parts fascinating, terrifying, and boring: https://youtube.com/@uscsb

boring and/or utterly fascinating, depending on the viewer -- safety engineering, whether that's airplanes, submarines, chemical plants, or whatever, is totally fascinating. Making something work is difficult, making it work safely, even more so.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#23

Post by gottorf »

kumarvvr wrote: post #17

It is highly surprising that the narrative in the US has morphed the expenses on public institutions of enormous importance, into wastage , something that has to be cut or eliminated. Why is it that no one is pointing out the contribution of these institutions to the US and the world? The US, has a society, has grown so materialistic, that they fail to see anything beyond money. Somethings cannot be measured by money…

> public institutions of enormous importance

A case of the baby getting thrown out with the bathwater, I suppose. And make no mistake: there was enough dirty bathwater to go around.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#24

Post by qmatch »

api wrote: post #15
qmatch wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are so confident in causality here?

The population thing is pretty elementary. If population is flat to declining, then growth is demand constrained. There are some areas where you could uncap growth by cutting regulation, but they're not this. The #1 one I'm aware of is housing construction in high cost metros.

I see your point, but not totally buying it. The US innovates for a global population, one that’s still growing.

The best way to infer causality is through experimentation. If regulation does go away, we’ll measure and learn if it actually worked.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#25

Post by kumarvvr »

gottorf wrote: post #23
kumarvvr wrote: post #17

It is highly surprising that the narrative in the US has morphed the expenses on public institutions of enormous importance, into wastage , something that has to be cut or eliminated. Why is it that no one is pointing out the contribution of these institutions to the US and the world? The US, has a society, has grown so materialistic, that they fail to see anything beyond money. Somethings cannot be measured by money…

> public institutions of enormous importance A case of the baby getting thrown out with the bathwater, I suppose. And make no mistake: there was enough dirty bathwater to go around.

Some waste is expected in govt. It happens even in private enterprises. That is down to human nature and other factors.

However, where is the critical thinking and debate on what actually the institution does, what can be improved and what can be changed?

Its all become X uses Y billion USD a year, so we have to make ti Y/2 to save the universe.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#26

Post by fallingknife »

api wrote: post #9
pixl97 wrote: post #4

Save lives?: X Increase safety?: X Make more money?: YES The USCSB makes life safer for everyone in this country, especially people that work around potentially dangerous chemicals and pressurized equipment.

I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't actually save any money or make anyone much more money. It's just a result of mindlessly fetishizing the past and misattributing past periods of rapid industrial growth to lack of regulation. The real cause was rapid population growth at the time, war, and extremely rapid adoption of bedrock industrial age technologies like electricity. Today we have a fully deployed modern inf…

I don't really buy this since China has industrialized rapidly without much population growth at all. They have built infrastructure like high speed rail that we are unable to build in the US, so I also don't buy the "fully deployed modern infrastructure" line.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#27

Post by supplied_demand »

nerdsniper wrote: post #8
z991 wrote: post #2

Their YouTube channel is equal parts fascinating, terrifying, and boring: https://youtube.com/@uscsb

Definitely worth watching! No matter if you’re technical or not. Top notch productions, beautiful even. I think a huge, huge amount of the government is wasteful but the CSB is doing incredible work. Some of the smartest chemical engineers go on to work there later in their career. Due to the average age of the knowledge-holders, this isn’t an agency that you can shut down and easily restart. Young engineers don’t ma…

== I think a huge, huge amount of the government is wasteful but the CSB is doing incredible work==

It feels like there is some type of reverse Gell-Mann Amnesia that goes on with government spending and programs.

Those close to the subject matter typically view government spending in their area of expertise as necessary, even “incredible” as you state. When it comes to spending in an area they are not an expert, it suddenly becomes “wasteful.”

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#28

Post by absurdo »

drjolly wrote: post #16

I think this is pretty consistent with the old school 1950s views of the current administration. Companies can prioritize profits over people again. Yeah, dump in the rivers, dump in the woods, just drive around in circles dumping in an empty lot. You don’t need masks- give everyone cancer and blow some shit up, maybe get some acid burns. Super-fund sites? When was the last one we had anyway- we need more of ‘em- lot…

[flagged]

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#29

Post by supplied_demand »

gottorf wrote: post #23
kumarvvr wrote: post #17

It is highly surprising that the narrative in the US has morphed the expenses on public institutions of enormous importance, into wastage , something that has to be cut or eliminated. Why is it that no one is pointing out the contribution of these institutions to the US and the world? The US, has a society, has grown so materialistic, that they fail to see anything beyond money. Somethings cannot be measured by money…

> public institutions of enormous importance A case of the baby getting thrown out with the bathwater, I suppose. And make no mistake: there was enough dirty bathwater to go around.

== And make no mistake: there was enough dirty bathwater to go around==

Any evidence to share?

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