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The curse of Toumaï: an ancient skull and a bitter feud over humanity's origins

theguardian.com

21–30 of 40 posts

Re: The curse of Toumaï: an ancient skull and a bitter feud over humanity's origins

#21
Heartwarming in that it’s just scientific misconduct for that age old desire: fame. Much better than the case of the Australian fossils whose knowledge will be lost because of politics.

If only because the eventual movie will be entertaining.

Re: The curse of Toumaï: an ancient skull and a bitter feud over humanity's origins

#23
post #15

I love the passion and bitchiness of the researchers.

As a story arc for a forthcoming film? Sure. But I'm reminded of the comp sci aphorism: physics advanced by standing on the shoulders of giants.. CS by standing on each other's toes.

Max Planck's "Science advances one funeral at a time" could be applied here.

Re: The curse of Toumaï: an ancient skull and a bitter feud over humanity's origins

#24
post #9

This image of the femur, can anyone shed light on why there are notches carved on the side? https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/b6b6509049556deef91d0459df864... Also, regarding "There is no technology, extant or imaginable, that could extract that marvellous secret from her bones", I put those under the "famous last words" category. We cannot predict today what we may discover about bones in the future. There could be som…

> "There is no technology, extant or imaginable, that could extract that marvellous secret from her bones" It's because the inference depends on having data from a very large sample of other finds. It wouldn't matter if there were a single Eve and we found her entire skeleton and extracted the DNA perfectly. We couldn't prove it was Eve without all the other samples, and it's beyond unlikely they'll just show up. I'm…

Totally agree about findings. In fact, oppositional researchers should be given the opportunity -- by law -- to refute claims. They should be given 100% access to all the evidence for a period of time.

Re: The curse of Toumaï: an ancient skull and a bitter feud over humanity's origins

#26

This image of the femur, can anyone shed light on why there are notches carved on the side? https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/b6b6509049556deef91d0459df864... Also, regarding "There is no technology, extant or imaginable, that could extract that marvellous secret from her bones", I put those under the "famous last words" category. We cannot predict today what we may discover about bones in the future. There could be som…

The marks could be scouring marks from the wind, I think. From the description in the article, these fossils have basically been sandblasted out of their sandstone matrix over time, so if there's a dominant wind direction small irregularities in the fossil could probably quite easily develop into this kind of parallel markings.

Re: The curse of Toumaï: an ancient skull and a bitter feud over humanity's origins

#27

One of the best recent articles I’ve read, a vivid picture of paleontology research. Science needs more big personalities and disputes, in its mysterious way it actually advances science

> Science needs more ...

From my read of the article, those big personalities were lording over a pretty dysfunctional and toxic workplace. At least from the expendable juniors' PoV.

Re: The curse of Toumaï: an ancient skull and a bitter feud over humanity's origins

#28

One of the best recent articles I’ve read, a vivid picture of paleontology research. Science needs more big personalities and disputes, in its mysterious way it actually advances science

> Science needs more ... From my read of the article, those big personalities were lording over a pretty dysfunctional and toxic workplace. At least from the expendable juniors' PoV.

Indeed, I've come across enough of those kinds of researchers, scientific knowledge comes a distant second on the list of priorities to bolstering their own ego.

Re: The curse of Toumaï: an ancient skull and a bitter feud over humanity's origins

#29

One of the best recent articles I’ve read, a vivid picture of paleontology research. Science needs more big personalities and disputes, in its mysterious way it actually advances science

If they can't admit when they're wrong and start sabotaging people's careers over it, it's not advancing science.

Re: The curse of Toumaï: an ancient skull and a bitter feud over humanity's origins

#30
post #9

This image of the femur, can anyone shed light on why there are notches carved on the side? https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/b6b6509049556deef91d0459df864... Also, regarding "There is no technology, extant or imaginable, that could extract that marvellous secret from her bones", I put those under the "famous last words" category. We cannot predict today what we may discover about bones in the future. There could be som…

> "There is no technology, extant or imaginable, that could extract that marvellous secret from her bones" It's because the inference depends on having data from a very large sample of other finds. It wouldn't matter if there were a single Eve and we found her entire skeleton and extracted the DNA perfectly. We couldn't prove it was Eve without all the other samples, and it's beyond unlikely they'll just show up. I'm…

> I'm disgusted by the convention that findings are controlled by self-interested glory-seeking finders

The basic idea makes sense; you spend a lot of time, effort, money, and sometimes personal risk to excavate these things. You should be given a chance to actually benefit from all this work.

But within reason, and obviously here someone abused a common-sense convention in a way that is hard to distinguish from outright bad faith behaviour.

In my opinion, the major failing here is from the university in not stepping in a bit more forcefully to deal with this.

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