The Cheapest Generation • Hacker News Board

Re: The Cheapest Generation

#21

Post by andyking » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 1:30 PM UTC

TheFuture wrote: post #13

andyking wrote: post #6

I own a car now, simply because I tried relying on public transport for a year and found the experience pretty depressing - it makes your day so very long (I was basically doing 6am-7pm including commuting) and loses you flexibility. I fell into a routine of coming to work, going home, and doing nothing else, because it was so much effort to plan a trip anywhere other than the office. It started to make me sink into…

Also think about how much easier it is to buy used vehicles. All the car buying websites have changed the auto sales industry in the last 10 years. The used car market is much bigger now and more selection, meanwhile consumers are more informed as ever on the value of new cars. Though as much as the article talks about cultural preferences of Gen Y, I think the "cheapness" is being driven solely by Gen Y having no mo…

I don't have £100,000 in student debt - because I didn't go to university. I'm not rich, but I'm financially independent. The only thing that would push me to get a nicer car would be better reliability, or better gas mileage - which both save you money (in gas, and repair bills / wasted time) in the long run. Car ownership is purely financial for me.

Re: The Cheapest Generation

#22

Post by fungi » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 1:31 PM UTC

nodata wrote: post #2

Single page version: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/09/the-chea... I don't like The Atlantic's title: it implys what is happening as negative.

indeed, by freeing up the money that is tied up in mortgages/car loans and burnt as oil, can't we put that money and those resources to far more productive endeavours.

Re: The Cheapest Generation

#23

Post by hieronymusN » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 1:32 PM UTC

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #10

hieronymusN wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is because our current economy is skewed towards consumption with real estate and cars as the primary metric. I agree, I don't see it as a negative. I'm Gen X and I don't own a house or car.

I realized recently I'm more reluctant to own a house than have a baby.

It all depends on where you live and what your local market is like. I have a kid, and still don't need a car or house. I also live in NYC, so it's easy to do that. If I lived someplace like Houston, where there is almost zero public transport and houses are crazy cheap I might rethink things. That said, don't buy into social groupthink, don't buy a house if it doesn't fit your sensibilities.

Re: The Cheapest Generation

#24

Post by ZoFreX » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 1:34 PM UTC

ganley wrote: post #7

Aside from those whose livelihood depends on car sales, who have an obvious incentive not to believe it, why is it so hard to believe that people might simply not want to own a car? The whole tone of this article seems like: It appears that millennials don't want to own cars, but that can't be right, can it? If I could get away with not owning one, I certainly would. As it is, I spend as little time in it as possible…

I thought that assumption throughout the article strange, too. A factor no one else seems to have mentioned (which admittedly only applies to transport, not housing) is that public transport is, overall, getting better. In London I have an Oyster card which actually gets me all the way to my dad's house too, even though he lives well outside London. Something like this just would not have been possible in the 90s, and now I can check how much money is on my Oyster from my phone, and see live train and bus (!) times on it as well. Not to mention that having tools like Google Maps makes using public transport in an unfamiliar city a doddle, I just punch in a postcode and it tells me which bus to get on, and which stop to get off at.

Re: The Cheapest Generation

#25

Post by JoelSutherland » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 1:35 PM UTC

In 1985 the average age of a car on the road was about 6 years. In 2012, the average age is over 11 years. This has a number of obvious implications on new-car purchasing behavior of young people:

1. It's much easier to buy a used car now since they have more years of service in them.

2. Getting a hand-me-down from a relative is possible.

3. Culturally, getting a new car is much more rare so there is less pressure to do it.

I think 3 is a huge factor. The social status a new car provides has fallen dramatically.

Re: The Cheapest Generation

#26

Post by cglace » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 1:36 PM UTC

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #17

andyking wrote: post #6

I own a car now, simply because I tried relying on public transport for a year and found the experience pretty depressing - it makes your day so very long (I was basically doing 6am-7pm including commuting) and loses you flexibility. I fell into a routine of coming to work, going home, and doing nothing else, because it was so much effort to plan a trip anywhere other than the office. It started to make me sink into…

You're right: cars are a means to an end. The incremental value provided by a luxury car over a regular car is exceedingly slight, and ends up going negative when you compare long term maintenance and gas prices. The entire problem with luxury cars is summed up in the word 'luxury': burning cash for social proof.

The incremental value is entirely dependent on the person buying the car. I've owned a mercedes for 8 years and when I drive other peoples cars I go crazy because of the little things I take for granted in my car.

Re: The Cheapest Generation

#27

Post by jmduke » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 1:37 PM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #15

andyking wrote: post #6

I own a car now, simply because I tried relying on public transport for a year and found the experience pretty depressing - it makes your day so very long (I was basically doing 6am-7pm including commuting) and loses you flexibility. I fell into a routine of coming to work, going home, and doing nothing else, because it was so much effort to plan a trip anywhere other than the office. It started to make me sink into…

> younger generations don't see a house or a car as a symbol of status or wealth, merely as something to be used, as a necessity And then there are fixies - impractical bikes that cost 700 euro simply because they are cool. Whereas you can get a practical bike for less than 200 euro. Maybe it is that we are cheap, so those things that cost beyond a certain threshold (like cars and housing) just need to work, whereas…

> Bikes

Fixies aren't really popular beyond the hipster demographic; while there are a lot of bikes that cost >$500 dollars, they're generally bought by serious bikers for whom the value proposition is more than worth it.

> iPhone

The only thing exorbitant to me about the iPhone is the data plan, because of how often I'm in the range of WiFi. I'd argue having a personal GPS, email client, information lookup, etc. etc. is more than worth the monthly fee -- I've been lost in the country enough times.

> RayBans

Sunglasses, unfortunately, are in a stranglehold market. You either spend $20 and get colored glass or spend $200 and get an actual product (at a ridiculous markup.)

(That being said, I've had my same pair of RayBans for 8 years. They hold up well.

Re: The Cheapest Generation

#28

Post by _delirium » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 1:39 PM UTC

This likely varies a lot based on location, but my impression is that suburbs aren't as high-status with (some) young people as they used to be: many people who in my parents' generation aspired to owning a house+garage+car now aspire to live in the city and walk/bike/transit to work. That doesn't mean no spending, though; young people are certainly shelling out to live in San Francisco or Manhattan, even if they don't buy a car.

Re: The Cheapest Generation

#29

Post by bmj » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 1:39 PM UTC

JoelSutherland wrote: post #25

In 1985 the average age of a car on the road was about 6 years. In 2012, the average age is over 11 years. This has a number of obvious implications on new-car purchasing behavior of young people: 1. It's much easier to buy a used car now since they have more years of service in them. 2. Getting a hand-me-down from a relative is possible. 3. Culturally, getting a new car is much more rare so there is less pressure to…

Culturally, getting a new car is much more rare so there is less pressure to do it.

I agree, and this isn't just for Gen Y-ers, either. Most of my Gen X friends (I guess I'm a Gen X-er, too) have no interest in purchasing new vehicles. My wife and I have owned exactly one new car (which we then sold after 6 years to purchase our camper van), and our current vehicle is ten years old. Shiny cars just aren't the status symbols they used to be.

Re: The Cheapest Generation

#30

Post by lilsunnybee » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 1:41 PM UTC

This article is dumb. It seems to ignore the most obvious explanations for these trends, and lumps together young adults in all socioeconomic classes and geographic locations like they're the same (they're not).

Outside of urban areas, cars are pretty much a necessity. I highly doubt that young adults in these areas aren't using cars at all, but it makes a lot of sense that they would buy used or borrow friends or parents cars over owning a new car, because low wages and unemployment tend to result in not having wads of cash on hand to throw at owning a new vehicle.

For young adults in urban areas, cars have pretty much always been a nice-to-have, but if you don't have the money for them (especially the extra for parking in urban areas), public transportation will work, even though it might not always be sexy.

Same with home ownership. Homes are the most expensive possessions out there. If you don't have the money, credit, cushy job, you can't afford one. So living at home, or with friends, or renting are the doable options, even though home ownership is still highly desired.

The experience of middle and lower class young adults is much different than their upper class peers. I imagine buying behavior really hasn't changed much for the upper classes. But the large majority in the lower classes have the greatest sway on the trends.

I find it fascinating that anyone would be baffled why these trends exist. When youth and lack of experience mean shitty jobs and unemployment, its no wonder the younger demographic aren't big spenders. If you don't have the money, you don't have the money.