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Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

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Re: Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

#21

Post by Ekaros »

RedCardRef wrote: post #2

Recently watched the Netflix docu series on this, J&J claimed that cyanide was not present in the factory, so there is no way the pills could have been contaminated at the factory. Then later on one of the doctors asked J&J if a test for cyanide is done for each batch in QA at the factory. J&J said yes, each batch was tested for the presence of cyanide. The doctor then asked, "Why were they testing for it(cyanide)?",…

Also if the testing isn't especially hard, complicated or expensive. I see no point to not do it. Specially when contamination is possible due to non-intentional reasons.

Re: Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

#22

Post by tecleandor »

chris-orgmenta wrote: post #17

> While in custody, she took a lie detector test, which revealed deception in two key responses[...] It did not. It revealed that the police failed to trick a confession out of her using pseudo-science. > James Lewis refused a polygraph. Sensible move - Especially when journalists interpret LDTs as per above. > They tried enlarging the pharmacy surveillance photo, but the bigger it got, the grainier it got. What did…

I'm surprised that there is anybody still taking seriously "lie detectors". It's just stress provoking tricks.

About ibuprofen, here in Spain (and I think the whole Europe), it's BTC (no prescription) until 400mg. Over 400mg you need a prescription. And when it's pills/capsules, it's sold in pill sheets (is that the name?) individually sealed.

I think everything register as a medicine in Europe has to be BTC.

Of course, as you say, everything else is on the other side of the counter, so you could be poisoning bananas or chocolate.

Re: Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

#24

Post by john-h-k »

> When Pishos smelled an almond-like scent, Donoghue asked the county's chief toxicologist, Michael Schaffer, to test the capsules, and Schaffer's team determined that four of the 44 remaining capsules from the Janus' bottle contained nearly three times the fatal amount of cyanide

(From the wiki page)

This is super interesting, because there was a NileRed video testing this and finding that cyanide doesn't really smell like almonds at all (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYagO-nup6c).

Re: Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

#25

Post by DougN7 »

AdamN wrote: post #19
RedCardRef wrote: post #2

Recently watched the Netflix docu series on this, J&J claimed that cyanide was not present in the factory, so there is no way the pills could have been contaminated at the factory. Then later on one of the doctors asked J&J if a test for cyanide is done for each batch in QA at the factory. J&J said yes, each batch was tested for the presence of cyanide. The doctor then asked, "Why were they testing for it(cyanide)?",…

Why is that strange? Cyanide seems like an obvious thing to test for at scale. Safety engineering doesn't say 'that doesn't seem likely even though it's dangerous and easy to control for so I'll not handle the scenario'. It says, 'anything unsafe should be mitigated with the right cost-benefit analysis applied for the scenario'. Testing for cyanide makes sense regardless of whether it's in the factory.

I really don’t know, but could there be 100 other substances as dangerous and easy to mix/administer as cyanide? There must be some cut off since you can’t test for everything. I’d be interested to know what that test matrix/decision document looks like.

Re: Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

#27

Post by voidUpdate »

chris-orgmenta wrote: post #17

> While in custody, she took a lie detector test, which revealed deception in two key responses[...] It did not. It revealed that the police failed to trick a confession out of her using pseudo-science. > James Lewis refused a polygraph. Sensible move - Especially when journalists interpret LDTs as per above. > They tried enlarging the pharmacy surveillance photo, but the bigger it got, the grainier it got. What did…

If the police ever ask me to take a lie detector test, I'm just going to refuse, because I'm a nervous person in general and it'll give a load of crap results that will be used against me.

Do pill bottles in America not have a tamper seal under the lid? All of them do here in the UK, and if it was missing, I'd be concerned. Alternatively, those little foil packet things

Re: Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

#28

Post by chris-orgmenta »

tecleandor wrote: post #22
chris-orgmenta wrote: post #17

> While in custody, she took a lie detector test, which revealed deception in two key responses[...] It did not. It revealed that the police failed to trick a confession out of her using pseudo-science. > James Lewis refused a polygraph. Sensible move - Especially when journalists interpret LDTs as per above. > They tried enlarging the pharmacy surveillance photo, but the bigger it got, the grainier it got. What did…

I'm surprised that there is anybody still taking seriously "lie detectors". It's just stress provoking tricks. About ibuprofen, here in Spain (and I think the whole Europe), it's BTC (no prescription) until 400mg. Over 400mg you need a prescription. And when it's pills/capsules, it's sold in pill sheets (is that the name?) individually sealed. I think everything register as a medicine in Europe has to be BTC. Of cour…

Agree.

I suppose I should clarify that I am aware that the incident was from '82 and that LDTs are no longer admissible in many jurisdictions, and new legislation came in for tamper-proofing medicine which affected not just the US.

But regardless, argument being "things haven't moved on enough - lie detectors are still used in some places, people still misinterpret what they are, and our supply chain still only discourages, rather than prevents, mischief"

Re: Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

#29

Post by presentation »

woodstrips wrote: post #20

OT but are there any decent services that'll turn this text into decent speech or podcast?

elevenlabs is pretty good for me - their app is simple to use for this. some occasional mispronunciations or weird pauses here and there though.

Re: Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

#30

Post by lazyasciiart »

SlightlyLeftPad wrote: post #18
bilbo0s wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I think people don't really understand the requirements you need to meet to get and maintain FDA clearance. I think even under the current administration, you still could have an obligation to do that testing.

That’s all true when the medicine is made here. More and more of every day medicine these days is made in countries with fewer safety regulations like India and China. FDA may inspect them from to time but they have no jurisdiction to actually do anything about violations.

They can stop the product being sold in the USA, which is usually a big deal.
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