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Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

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Re: Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

#21

Post by reaperducer »

Every time I see someone on HN crowing about how great so-called "vibe" coding is, I can't help by think they must be doing the lowest, most basic types of coding.

I don't need AI to help me code. What I need AI to do is help me figure out new coding solutions. But all AI seems able to do is regurgitate things that other people have already done that it's ingested from the internet.

I'll ask AI how to do abc, within xyz parameters, with def available and ghi constraints. I typically get back one of two things:

1. A list of 20 steps to achieve abc that somewhere around the middle has a step that's the equivalent of "Then magic happens" or two to three steps that are entirely unrelated to one other or the project at hand.

2. A list of what should be 20 steps that suddenly ends at step 7, leaving the problem only half done.

Most frustrating is when the "AI" says to use $tool/$library, but $tool/$library is not available on the specified platform, or hasn't been updated since 2011 and no longer works. When I tell the AI this, it always responds with, "You are right, that tool is no longer available. Here's a list of even more broken steps you can take to work around it."

So far, for my coding needs, AI seems only able to regurgitate what's already been done and published by others. That's great, but there are search engines for that. I have novel problems, and until AI can actually live up to the "I" part of its name, it is worthless to me.

Re: Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

#22

Post by jajko »

marcusestes wrote: post #4

Appreciate this. But. Do whatever you want. That’s an option too. Make a dumb thing, take your hands off the wheel, have fun. It’s your computer.

Projects just for you or some very, very limited set of lets say your close friends? Sure, who cares.

For folks actually workibg in companies handling various data that dont belong to them? Oh god, please no, thats a horrible advice.

Re: Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

#23

Post by fkyoureadthedoc »

marcusestes wrote: post #4

Appreciate this. But. Do whatever you want. That’s an option too. Make a dumb thing, take your hands off the wheel, have fun. It’s your computer.

I like how every reply to you is the same, nuance doesn't exist, and we're all working on missile guidance systems and pacemaker firmware.

There's such a wide range of software. There's plenty of space for an amateur to do some creative vibe coding. What's the point of the scolding and hand wringing?

Re: Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

#24

Post by Ancalagon »

valianteffort wrote: post #20

Very grateful to have had good self-learning, education, then mentoring before LLM's existed. And although they are such a boon to productivity I worry what they will do to my ability to think on my own long term. Like reaching for your phone out of habit the moment you are bored, I don't want to need an LLM any time I am faced with a problem. I want to exercise my own brain. I feel as though my ability to reason wit…

Oh totally agree. These LLMs are like tiktok on my phone in terms of addictiveness.

Re: Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

#25

Post by dlivingston »

BrenBarn wrote: post #13

> This is not innovation. This is a security breach waiting to happen. No, it is innovation. The problem is that innovation is often bad .

How specifically is innovation often bad? Innovation, like scientific discovery, is merely an expansion of the veil of knowledge. Specific applications may be good or bad but knowledge and processes are neutral.

Re: Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

#26

Post by jajko »

reaperducer wrote: post #21

Every time I see someone on HN crowing about how great so-called "vibe" coding is, I can't help by think they must be doing the lowest, most basic types of coding. I don't need AI to help me code. What I need AI to do is help me figure out new coding solutions. But all AI seems able to do is regurgitate things that other people have already done that it's ingested from the internet. I'll ask AI how to do abc , within…

In my banking megacorp, despite having officially title of senior sw engineer, coding is maybe 10% of my time spent. And its the best, most creative part I actually enjoy. Why would I give up that? No real velocity gained even if all would be 1 click away in flawless production-ready state.

The real cruft of seniority is: processes, knowing right people and their buttons, politics, being there to fix obscure corner case production issues and so on. How can llm help me with that? It can't.

For code sweatshops they may be a blessing, for corporations drowning in regulations and internal abysmal labyrinths of their IT, not so much.

Re: Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

#27

Post by fkyoureadthedoc »

paulcole wrote: post #15

Love it. We’ve reached the no-true-scotsman part of the vibe coding hype speedrun.

I'm curious which part of the article led you to that conclusion? It seems to make a pretty reasonable distinction between vibe coding and general use AI in coding to me. It's clearly not hyping up vibe coding, or even presenting it in a positive light.

Re: Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

#28

Post by _fat_santa »

Ugh I feel like this general topic had been beaten to death, every article inevitably references the same viral moments on Twitter and draws roughly the same conclusions.

But these articles get posted and upvoted cause we developers just eat that shit up (if I’m being honest I do at least, every time I see these kinds of posts I always smirk cause I know what the comments section is gonna be like).

Re: Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

#29

Post by codr7 »

quantadev wrote: post #3

Experienced senior developers can spot and fix the slop instantly, while still getting a 30x productivity gain, while entry level or junior devs basically only have one "Filter" by which they determine code quality which is: "Does the code seem to work?". Unfortunately "Slop" will appear to work enough of the time to fool a Junior. Also the reason Junior devs get "slop" is because their prompts are "slop". They don't…

30x-50x :)

Right, if you're getting that, experienced senior is a pretty wild stretch.

Re: Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

#30

Post by codr7 »

_fat_santa wrote: post #28

Ugh I feel like this general topic had been beaten to death, every article inevitably references the same viral moments on Twitter and draws roughly the same conclusions. But these articles get posted and upvoted cause we developers just eat that shit up (if I’m being honest I do at least, every time I see these kinds of posts I always smirk cause I know what the comments section is gonna be like).

Unfortunately it seems like the more you use AI, the dumber you become; I suspect these discussions will get more and more dramatic until we have two camps that don't even understand what the other side is saying anymore.
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