Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 120 posts

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#21

Post by AndrewDucker »

gasull wrote: post #17
ajanuary wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is they don't just want to question him, they're at the stage they want to charge him. You can't really do that over video conference. [edited to change 'prosecute' to 'charge']

EDIT: I didn't understand how Swedish law work. See AndrewDuck's reply. But still, they could interrogate him by videoconference (what Assange offered) or charge him in absence. He hasn't been formally charged of any crime. If they want to prosecute him, they should charge him of something.

That's not how Swedish law works.

From Wikipedia: "Assange has not yet been formally charged with any offence;[35] the prosecutor said that, in accordance with the Swedish legal system, formal charges will be laid only after extradition and a second round of questioning. The High Court found that the Swedish process has reached the stage of criminal proceedings, which would be equivalent to having been charged under English process.[36]"

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#22

Post by cdash »

gasull wrote: post #10
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #4

I don't think Julian jumping bail and fleeing to the Ecuadorian embassy will do him any favours. Now the UK and Sweden are angry at him and Ecuador and Australia's embarrassed. Sure, the US does want to question him. But they haven't issued an extradition request, and by the looks of things getting him out of Sweden would be just as difficult as getting him out of the UK, if not more so. I highly suspect Assange is a…

Sweden has given prisoners to the CIA to be tortured in Egypt. Sweden has illegally tried to shut down The Pirate Bay under the pressure of the US. Will Sweden give Assange to the US? It seems very likely. Many people have pointed out in HN that the sex was consensual according to the 2 women, but the issue is about protected or unprotected sex. Rape has a different definition in the Swedish legal code than everywher…

What he is being investigated for would be considered rape pretty much anywhere in the western world. He is being investigated for having sex with a person that was asleep after she had expressed she did not want to have sex with him without a condom. That means no consent was given and would be rape pretty much anywhere.

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#23

Post by jusben1369 »

hnolable wrote: post #18
jusben1369 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure Hnolable if you did the down vote on TazeTSchnitzel but either way it seems very inappropriate. You're taking a complicated situation and assuming you know all the facts and the motivations. That's presumptuous because it is impossible for you to know. There's nothing in the comments by OP that isn't a fair assumption.

I'm a new account. I have 13 pts. I can't downvote. His comment was very uninformed. So I pasted 3 links which are a quick way for him to get up to speed on the things that most people are not made aware of by the media covering the whole fiasco.

Yet it's hard to dispute that Assange does a) want to avoid going to jail and b) is a very attention seeking person. At least that comment is no longer down-voted. That ABC/4Corners article you site really isn't credible either if you know Australian media well.

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#24

Post by vidarh »

Kiro wrote: post #11
smokeyj wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I highly suspect Assange is actually just trying to avoid jail time, if he's going to these lengths to avoid going to Sweden for questioning on unrelated accusations of sex crime. He offered to be interviewed from the embassy. Isn't it suspicious that Sweden won't accept that, given that this man hasn't been charged with anything?

No, it's in accordance with Swedish bureaucracy.

Except it isn't really. They regularly interview suspects outside of Sweden. One of the most recent well known cases is a pair of Polish nationals interviewed in Poland on suspicion of carrying out a double homicide in Sweden. So apparently it's ok to interview alleged murderers outside Sweden, but not Assange.

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#25

Post by archangel_one »

vidarh wrote: post #20
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #4

I don't think Julian jumping bail and fleeing to the Ecuadorian embassy will do him any favours. Now the UK and Sweden are angry at him and Ecuador and Australia's embarrassed. Sure, the US does want to question him. But they haven't issued an extradition request, and by the looks of things getting him out of Sweden would be just as difficult as getting him out of the UK, if not more so. I highly suspect Assange is a…

He's spent more time struggling to avoid jail time than he would spend in jail in Sweden if convicted, in a relatively low security prison likely to have quite decent accommodation and amenities. This isn't like the US where he'd risk years in some horrible shithole. I'd be surprised if he got more than 6 months if convincted - there's been people convicted for violent rapes in substantially worse circumstances that…

Obviously, he is not doing it just to avoid a Swedish prison sentence. He appears to think that if he goes to Sweden, he'll end up going to the US too and once there he'll be "vanished" or worse. I'd say that's not unreasonable given what we've heard from the US already, and the pressure they've been willing to bring to bear on Kim Dotcom (who they're a lot less personally annoyed with than Assange) or the Pirate Bay a few years back.

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#26

Post by vidarh »

AndrewDucker wrote: post #21
gasull wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: I didn't understand how Swedish law work. See AndrewDuck's reply. But still, they could interrogate him by videoconference (what Assange offered) or charge him in absence. He hasn't been formally charged of any crime. If they want to prosecute him, they should charge him of something.

That's not how Swedish law works. From Wikipedia: "Assange has not yet been formally charged with any offence;[35] the prosecutor said that, in accordance with the Swedish legal system, formal charges will be laid only after extradition and a second round of questioning. The High Court found that the Swedish process has reached the stage of criminal proceedings, which would be equivalent to having been charged under…

There is nothing preventing a Swedish court from issuing charges in absentia, and there's nothing preventing them from carrying out questioning outside of Sweden. This is smoke and mirrors.

And it's something that has prompted a formal complaint against this prosecutor to the Swedish judicial ombudsman.

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#27

Post by rmc »

gasull wrote: post #10
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #4

I don't think Julian jumping bail and fleeing to the Ecuadorian embassy will do him any favours. Now the UK and Sweden are angry at him and Ecuador and Australia's embarrassed. Sure, the US does want to question him. But they haven't issued an extradition request, and by the looks of things getting him out of Sweden would be just as difficult as getting him out of the UK, if not more so. I highly suspect Assange is a…

Sweden has given prisoners to the CIA to be tortured in Egypt. Sweden has illegally tried to shut down The Pirate Bay under the pressure of the US. Will Sweden give Assange to the US? It seems very likely. Many people have pointed out in HN that the sex was consensual according to the 2 women, but the issue is about protected or unprotected sex. Rape has a different definition in the Swedish legal code than everywher…

Many people have pointed out in HN that the sex was consensual according to the 2 women, but the issue is about protected or unprotected sex. Rape has a different definition in the Swedish legal code than everywhere else in the world.

Lots of people are trying to point out that Assange isn't being accused of rape, but some sort of "not-using-a-condom" silly rape law that is only the law is whacky Sweden, herp de derp feminists de derp political correctness gone mad.

However in order to be extradited from UK, he had to be accused of a crime that would have been illegal in the UK. I suggest you read the High Court extradition appeal case ( http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2011/2849.html ). The courts quite clearly decided that it wasn't some weird 'sweden-only' law, but what he was accused of would be a crime in England & Wales.

In fact, he's 'charged' with 4 things:

• "Unlawful coercion" - Holding down a woman with his body and forcing her to have sex.

• "Sexual molestation" - Having sex with someone without a condom when they said they would only have with a condom (this would be illegal in the UK aswell BTW).

• "Sexual molestation" - "deliberately molested the injured party by acting in a manner designed to violate her sexual integrity i.e. lying next to her and pressing his naked, erect penis to her body."

• "Rape" - Having sex with someone who was asleep.

Before you talk about what's going on, read up on the charges.

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#28

Post by jusben1369 »

I know it's very contrarian to not be 100% pro Assange on this board but all I ever see are the pro Assange interpretation of the facts. Some things to consider:

- "Sometime during Wilen's questioning the police announced to Ardin and Wilen that Assange was to be arrested and questioned about possible rape and molestation." This was the initial questioning by local authorities. So unless every police station in every part of Sweden had been told to get Assange no matter what at any opportunity it's unlikely this was some conspiracy. Perhaps the local police station over reacted - but no conspiracy

- "Within 24 hours, a more senior prosecutor dismissed the rape allegations, leaving only the lesser accusation of molestation. Assange willingly went to the police on August 30th and made a statement." Ok so the further up the chain it goes the initial charge is reduced. If there was a conspiracy at this point wouldn't it work the other way?

- Can't avoid this piece of irony: "During the interview he expressed his fears that anything he said would end up in the tabloid newspaper Expressen. The interviewing police officer said: "I'm not going to leak anything." The interview was leaked."

- "On September 15th, the prosecutor told Assange he was permitted to leave Sweden." More than two weeks after the initial report he's still allowed to leave Sweden. Surely if the US government wanted to use this case to trump up charges and have him arrested and deported via a proxy state (as is so often stated) wouldn't they have gotten the ball rolling within those two weeks?

- JEFFREY L. BLEICH, US AMBASSADOR TO AUSTRALIA (May 2012): "It's not something that the US cares about, it's not interested in it, it hasn't been involved in it - and frankly, if he's in Sweden, there's a less robust extradition relationship than there is between the US and the UK, so I think it's one of those narratives that has been made up - there's nothing to it."

If this is a conspiracy to get Assange then it's a pretty poorly orchestrated one at this stage.

Anyway, just wanted to highlight some counter points that won't sit well with many people here but that's probably even more reason to point them out.

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#29

Post by vidarh »

Homunculiheaded wrote: post #15
smokeyj wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I highly suspect Assange is actually just trying to avoid jail time, if he's going to these lengths to avoid going to Sweden for questioning on unrelated accusations of sex crime. He offered to be interviewed from the embassy. Isn't it suspicious that Sweden won't accept that, given that this man hasn't been charged with anything?

But according to Swedish law Assange cannot be charged until after this second round of questioning. If you search this document [0] for 'charge' you'll see that Swedish law is very different from US and UK laws where being formally charged happens very early in the legal process. From what I've gather in Swedish law once you are charge formally you go very quickly to court. 0. http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/J…

This is pretty much irrelevant. They have two alternatives:

- They can interview him where he is now, and move things forward at least a little bit. - They can wait - possibly forever - to interview him, and not get justice for anyone.

What changes if they interview him now?

They claim there are legal issues with it, but this would not be the first time someone had been questioned on foreign soil, and it would not be the first time someone has been charged in absentia if they were to go down that route.

He won't magically gain superpowers and fly away from the Ecuadorian embassy if they charge him before they have him in custody. All that realistically changes is that they have to publicly make a decision whether to file charges or not.

So the question the is why is that a problem? The cynic in me tells me that the most likely reason is that they don't believe they have a strong case, and that his dogged insistence on not going to Sweden suits the prosecutor perfectly.

Post reply on HN