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Huawei launches first laptops using home-grown HarmonyOS

reuters.com

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Re: Huawei launches first laptops using home-grown HarmonyOS

#21

Post by StopDisinfo910 »

chvid wrote: post #18
notyourwork wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without disagreeing, can you tell me what makes this a game changer? How would I apply this in my personal life or at work?

Modern microkernels deliver stability, security, performance (look it up if you want the details). Back when I did CS we were talking about this as the next big thing in operating systems. It didn't happen - common operating systems instead expanded in scope, started to include things like a web browser and supporting a gazallion pieces of hardware, rather than trying to "do things right". The game changer part is of…

This is not a game changer. Microkernels have been a reality for ages. See QNX or even Fuchsia. I don’t know what "modern" microkernel means. The architectural concepts haven’t changed.

There are reasons nobody uses true microkernels. IPCs are slow and the gains are limited compared to the strategies all broadly used kernels already use. They are no monolithic kernel anymore. Everyone has slowly but surely been shifting more and more things to user space in isolated processes including Linux and Windows.

Hongmeng might be an interesting kernel. It might also not be. Sadly its proprietary and there are very little benchmarks not published by Huawei. Personally I won’t hold my breath for this one.

Re: Huawei launches first laptops using home-grown HarmonyOS

#22

Post by chvid »

StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #21
chvid wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern microkernels deliver stability, security, performance (look it up if you want the details). Back when I did CS we were talking about this as the next big thing in operating systems. It didn't happen - common operating systems instead expanded in scope, started to include things like a web browser and supporting a gazallion pieces of hardware, rather than trying to "do things right". The game changer part is of…

This is not a game changer. Microkernels have been a reality for ages. See QNX or even Fuchsia. I don’t know what "modern" microkernel means. The architectural concepts haven’t changed. There are reasons nobody uses true microkernels. IPCs are slow and the gains are limited compared to the strategies all broadly used kernels already use. They are no monolithic kernel anymore. Everyone has slowly but surely been shift…

Sorry. Of course you right - the game changing part is that there is now an advanced consumer os that is owned by a Chinese company - it being micro kernel is a small part but important.

Re: Huawei launches first laptops using home-grown HarmonyOS

#23

Post by snvzz »

StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #21
chvid wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern microkernels deliver stability, security, performance (look it up if you want the details). Back when I did CS we were talking about this as the next big thing in operating systems. It didn't happen - common operating systems instead expanded in scope, started to include things like a web browser and supporting a gazallion pieces of hardware, rather than trying to "do things right". The game changer part is of…

This is not a game changer. Microkernels have been a reality for ages. See QNX or even Fuchsia. I don’t know what "modern" microkernel means. The architectural concepts haven’t changed. There are reasons nobody uses true microkernels. IPCs are slow and the gains are limited compared to the strategies all broadly used kernels already use. They are no monolithic kernel anymore. Everyone has slowly but surely been shift…

>IPCs are slow and the gains are limited compared to the strategies all broadly used kernels already use.

The problem you are describing is a characteristic of 1st generation microkernels, and was solved by Jochen Liedtke in the mid 90s, introducing 2nd generation microkernels.

seL4 is a 3rd generation microkernel.

>I don’t know what "modern" microkernel means.

To get up to date, a good resource is Gernot Heiser's blog[0], read from oldest to newest.

0. https://microkerneldude.org/

Re: Huawei launches first laptops using home-grown HarmonyOS

#24

Post by suraci »

h4kunamata wrote: post #12
echelon wrote: post #2

We should have known that if we limited China from accessing our tech, they'd just grow their own. The game is afoot, and China knew to de-risk and decouple. I don't think that it can be stopped at this point. HarmonyOS, RISC-V, DeepSeek, domestic EUV, etc. China is standing up its own tech pillars. So I suppose American lawmakers see this as a game of slowing down the competition rather than fully impeding it. China…

When you prevent somebody from accessing what is out there, they release their own. The problem with that?? Well, only they mastered it since it was developed with local tech, by the time the goods are sent worldwide, you are blindfolded. Still, I would never buy a Chinese tech device, you are buying a surveillance system to allow its government to spy on you.

[flagged]

Re: Huawei launches first laptops using home-grown HarmonyOS

#25

Post by [deleted] »

snvzz wrote: post #23
StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a game changer. Microkernels have been a reality for ages. See QNX or even Fuchsia. I don’t know what "modern" microkernel means. The architectural concepts haven’t changed. There are reasons nobody uses true microkernels. IPCs are slow and the gains are limited compared to the strategies all broadly used kernels already use. They are no monolithic kernel anymore. Everyone has slowly but surely been shift…

>IPCs are slow and the gains are limited compared to the strategies all broadly used kernels already use. The problem you are describing is a characteristic of 1st generation microkernels, and was solved by Jochen Liedtke in the mid 90s, introducing 2nd generation microkernels. seL4 is a 3rd generation microkernel. >I don’t know what "modern" microkernel means. To get up to date, a good resource is Gernot Heiser's bl…

[deleted]

Re: Huawei launches first laptops using home-grown HarmonyOS

#26

Post by StopDisinfo910 »

snvzz wrote: post #23
StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a game changer. Microkernels have been a reality for ages. See QNX or even Fuchsia. I don’t know what "modern" microkernel means. The architectural concepts haven’t changed. There are reasons nobody uses true microkernels. IPCs are slow and the gains are limited compared to the strategies all broadly used kernels already use. They are no monolithic kernel anymore. Everyone has slowly but surely been shift…

>IPCs are slow and the gains are limited compared to the strategies all broadly used kernels already use. The problem you are describing is a characteristic of 1st generation microkernels, and was solved by Jochen Liedtke in the mid 90s, introducing 2nd generation microkernels. seL4 is a 3rd generation microkernel. >I don’t know what "modern" microkernel means. To get up to date, a good resource is Gernot Heiser's bl…

It’s not about being up to date. What you call modern here is just recent. It doesn’t fundamentally diverge from the historical architecture.

Even SeL4 fast IPC which is not actually a full IPC but works well in the barebone context of SeL4 remains in fact slower than good old syscalls.

The fundamental question remains the same “Is this worse the costs (in terms of both efficiency and design complexity)?”

To me, the answer is muddy here. Sometimes yes, sometimes probably not. I think it’s why hybrid approaches are now generalised but no one is really shipping a microkernel outside of industrial applications.

Re: Huawei launches first laptops using home-grown HarmonyOS

#27

Post by the_third_wave »

supermatt wrote: post #20
h4kunamata wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you prevent somebody from accessing what is out there, they release their own. The problem with that?? Well, only they mastered it since it was developed with local tech, by the time the goods are sent worldwide, you are blindfolded. Still, I would never buy a Chinese tech device, you are buying a surveillance system to allow its government to spy on you.

> I would never buy a Chinese tech device, you are buying a surveillance system to allow its government to spy on you. There is no public evidence that Chinese consumer tech has ever been used to spy for the Chinese government. None. Meanwhile, the USA has been caught running mass surveillance programmes like PRISM and tapping the phones of its own allies. That is confirmed. And yet it is the USA making the most nois…

O you sweet summer child, think of why there is no public evidence on Chinese espionage while you can easily rattle off a laundry list of Western espionage programs and you'll realise your mistake: China is a closed society without public inquiry while most of the West hangs its dirty laundry out for all to see and comment upon. Look under the cover of that Xiongmai camera, that Huawei base station or those Chinese inverters and you'll find plenty of remote access and control facilities which no doubt were left there purely by accident.

Re: Huawei launches first laptops using home-grown HarmonyOS

#30

Post by supermatt »

the_third_wave wrote: post #27
supermatt wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would never buy a Chinese tech device, you are buying a surveillance system to allow its government to spy on you. There is no public evidence that Chinese consumer tech has ever been used to spy for the Chinese government. None. Meanwhile, the USA has been caught running mass surveillance programmes like PRISM and tapping the phones of its own allies. That is confirmed. And yet it is the USA making the most nois…

O you sweet summer child, think of why there is no public evidence on Chinese espionage while you can easily rattle off a laundry list of Western espionage programs and you'll realise your mistake: China is a closed society without public inquiry while most of the West hangs its dirty laundry out for all to see and comment upon. Look under the cover of that Xiongmai camera, that Huawei base station or those Chinese i…

That sounds clever, but it dodges the core issue. You're treating suspicion as proof. Yes, China is less open, but that doesn't justify assuming guilt without evidence. Both Western and Chinese tech have had security flaws - whether truly accidental or not is up for debate. As you mentioned, Xiongmai cameras had hardcoded credentials and poor default security, and Huawei routers have had vulnerabilities - like many western alternatives. But none of these have been proven to be intentional or used for state spying.

In contrast, the West has been caught with INTENTIONAL backdoors - many of which have been directly linked to government and intelligence services. Juniper firewalls had a secret access mechanism tied to compromised cryptography. Trustwave issuing subordinate certificates to facilitate MitM snooping on all TLS traffic. Netgear and Cisco devices including undocumented public-facing remote access features. These were not speculative or theoretical. They were discovered, documented, and in some cases quietly patched without disclosure.

None of these were revealed out of transparency. They were found by researchers or whistleblowers. If there is no public evidence against Chinese devices, there is no case. Assuming intent without proof is not analysis. It is projection.

And let’s not ignore the obvious: many of these devices are manufactured in the same Chinese factories. But once a US brand name is stamped on the box, the fear seems to vanish. Somehow, they stop being a threat...

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