Live data from Hacker News

America's College Towns Go from Boom to Bust

wsj.com

21–30 of 72 posts

Re: America's College Towns Go from Boom to Bust

#21
post #11

The title is misleading. As the article itself notes, "Large flagship universities—blessed with strong academic reputations and high-profile sports programs—continue to boost local economies". It's the second and third-tier institutions located in economically depressed areas, like the one profiled here (Western Illinois University’s Macomb campus), that are suffering. After all, why would you fork out a lot of money…

> why would you fork out a lot of money for a diploma that's worth little and won't even connect you with local job opportunities? To learn, to sharpen your mind, to grow and change yourself.

In exchange for 100k in debt? Library is free.

Re: America's College Towns Go from Boom to Bust

#22
post #14
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why would you fork out a lot of money for a diploma that's worth little and won't even connect you with local job opportunities? To learn, to sharpen your mind, to grow and change yourself.

There are other ways to do that. School is an investment.

> There are other ways to do that. School is an investment

For most people, yes. For our elites, I think one of the great losses over the past generations has been this financialisation of education. Measuring ROI solely in monetary terms, thereby sacrificing the civic and cultural parts for that which is easily measured and marketed.

Re: America's College Towns Go from Boom to Bust

#23
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other ways to do that. School is an investment.

> There are other ways to do that. School is an investment For most people, yes. For our elites, I think one of the great losses over the past generations has been this financialisation of education. Measuring ROI solely in monetary terms, thereby sacrificing the civic and cultural parts for that which is easily measured and marketed.

Imo college sports is a huge driver of this, as schools are more often seen as sports franchises these days than actual educational institutions.

Re: America's College Towns Go from Boom to Bust

#24

The title is misleading. As the article itself notes, "Large flagship universities—blessed with strong academic reputations and high-profile sports programs—continue to boost local economies". It's the second and third-tier institutions located in economically depressed areas, like the one profiled here (Western Illinois University’s Macomb campus), that are suffering. After all, why would you fork out a lot of money…

[deleted]

Re: America's College Towns Go from Boom to Bust

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Burn out and body damage from trades is not really factually based, especially not compared to something like software. You can actually quantify this. For instance the median age of a construction worker is 42. [1] In some states it's pushing near 50. By contrast in software there is extreme defacto age discrimination. I don't think it's usually real age discrimination but simply companies don't really value experie…

Body damage math isn’t even close. BLS puts non-fatal injuries in construction at 2.3 cases per 100 FTEs. For computer systems design it’s 0.1 – that’s a 23× gap.whole job takes a toll over time. The median age of 42 just means a lot of sore 40-somethings can’t afford to quit yet. Age alone doesn’t tell you how their knees and backs feel after 20 years of rebar. Not sure how many people you know in the industry but m…

Sitting in a chair is also pretty terrible for your health. :)

Re: America's College Towns Go from Boom to Bust

#26
post #3

Skimmed TFA. This might be an accurate summary: Less kids are enrolling in college due to several factors. A decline in birthrates (right around the 2008 recession), a decline in those who calculate that college provides a real return on investment and the cost of lost opportunity, and also a third strike in the form of federal funding cuts. There's a bunch of example case sob story, a lot of emotional focus. Yet I d…

Burn out and body damage from trades is not really factually based, especially not compared to something like software. You can actually quantify this. For instance the median age of a construction worker is 42. [1] In some states it's pushing near 50. By contrast in software there is extreme defacto age discrimination. I don't think it's usually real age discrimination but simply companies don't really value experie…

> Burn out and body damage from trades is not really factually based, especially not compared to something like software.

Your assertion isn't factually based - it's just another baseless claim on the Internet.

I don't know the factual basis about the harm labor does - it's one of those things that generally don't need it for most people - but basic knowledge and reasoning is that hard, and repetitive, physical labor daily for decades is going to cause some real physical problems. Most white-collar workers I know over 40 have bad backs. I know college kids who didn't last a summer on a worksite.

And as much better evidence, we have generations of reporting on it from the people who do physical labor. Those people have also long said they worked so their kids to do something different. I've never heard one who agreed with you - I've never heard anyone who agreed with you.

If it's so great, do you think many developers in SV would take construction jobs if they paid more? Managers? Other white-collar workers? Out in the cold and rain? No remote working for those jobs. :)

> There are people who have a catastrophic injury in the trades and live the rest of their life on disability from age 22.

There are many other injuries - losing fingers and toes, serious traumatic injuries to every part of the body. I knew a painter who fell off a ladder, fell three stories and landed in the splits. But they had a family and they were back at it as soon as they healed; it wasn't without pain. If you do it every day for decades, how do you never fall from the ladder?

> the median age of a construction worker is 42. [1] In some states it's pushing near 50.

Many have no choice.

Re: America's College Towns Go from Boom to Bust

#27
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why would you fork out a lot of money for a diploma that's worth little and won't even connect you with local job opportunities? To learn, to sharpen your mind, to grow and change yourself.

And why should you sacrifice the ability to connect with opportunity just because you wanted to expand your mind? It's unfortunate that people should be presented with this forced choice.

> sacrifice the ability to connect with opportunity just because you wanted to expand your mind

Growing as a person and intellectually is a great opportunity, a lifelong change. Better than some immediate cash in an entry-level job.

Re: America's College Towns Go from Boom to Bust

#28
post #14
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why would you fork out a lot of money for a diploma that's worth little and won't even connect you with local job opportunities? To learn, to sharpen your mind, to grow and change yourself.

There are other ways to do that. School is an investment.

What other ways?

Re: America's College Towns Go from Boom to Bust

#29
post #7

Anyone who looked at demographic trends 10+ years ago knew that this was coming. As far back as the late 90s, it was clear that universities were overinvesting into the one of the last echos of the baby boom.

A lot of people are, in general, in denial of what reduced fertility will bring. Consequences lag effect by decades so it's not exactly a secret what the future will hold. For instance most don't realize that Japan is still in the 'good ole days', relative to what awaits them in the future, even as places like Tokyo start to shrink today. I also think people don't realize how fast things start happening once they do…

South Korea probably already has immigration reform ready to go. They’ll just do everything else before letting people meaningfully immigrate.

A “Korean” in 2100 might have Filipino, Indian, African ancestry.

In fact the way things are going Africa will probably end up as the nursery of the world for a few decades. Then birth rates will collapse there too.

The robots should be ready then

Re: America's College Towns Go from Boom to Bust

#30
post #21
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why would you fork out a lot of money for a diploma that's worth little and won't even connect you with local job opportunities? To learn, to sharpen your mind, to grow and change yourself.

In exchange for 100k in debt? Library is free.

The 100K is a big problem.

The library doesn't even approximate a substitute. Maybe you are a genius, but almost everyone needs teachers. Even experts need people to teach them new things, to mentor them, etc. They also need labs and equipment.

Also, the library you need for real reasearch is not free. It only exists in academia. Your local public library doesn't give you access to nearly the same resources, nor the essential reference librarians. (Maybe the NY Public Library? Does that have JSTOR, for example?)

Post reply on HN