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To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

theatlantic.com

21–30 of 111 posts

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#21

This. I've spent most of my adult life outside of the US, after having spent my childhood and university in Florida. Now, when I travel in the States, I see a _lot_ of good everywhere I go, but it's undeniable that other countries are doing certain things better (I'd argue that nobody has it all together, though Singapore comes mighty close in my book). This is actually a great thing for the US in many ways -- we've…

> Now the entire world is participating

The entire world has been "participating" for centuries, long before the US even existed.

You may have picked up on that in your life outside the US.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US High School education, for instance, is not well regarded. I think this is a bit disingenuous. I would say that the US high school system is not equitable . It works just fine for the upper middle class on up. It's the lower class that gets screwed over by the way things are set up.

Yes just try comparing Detroit public schools with that of the suburbs and you'll realize no one can make general statements about how crappy US schools are.

You both realize you're only emphasizing one of the main reasons why the US educations system isn't well regarded?

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#23
post #13

One area where we lag behind the rest of the world is our voting system. In 1992 Clinton was elected with 43% of the vote because Perot split the Republicans. In 2000 Bush was elected with 48% because Nader split the Democrats. This kind of voting system has been mathematically proven to create a two-party system (Duverger's Law). In many other countries they use runoff voting, so if no one gets 50%, they hold anothe…

One thing I've never seen answered:

Has anyone actually stopped to figure out how multi-party systems really scale? India is the largest in the world, but also A) has Euro-style population density and B) is maybe not such a great example of a functioning representative government. France and Germany are better examples of governments that mostly work, but are dealing with a fraction of the US population and order-of-magnitude differences in density and geographic area compared to the US.

And, tellingly, what I know of French and German politics is basically that, while in theory there are a bunch of parties and there are places where they can pick up a seat or two... they're still two-party in the sense that they tend to develop stable, long-lived pairs of large dominant parties, who in turn are the only ones with a shot at forming a government. Every once in a while a third party gets just big enough to play kingmaker, but that's about it. And that doesn't sound like enough of a sweeping change to justify rebooting the entire system.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#24
post #3

I agree in general, but several of the specific policy recommendations he puts forward are horrible. States having equal representation in the Senate is one of the few protections for States' Rights today. Population isn't the only reason for representation. Direct election of the President by popular vote per state would probably be functionally the same as the electoral college, modulo faithless electors, but most…

I'm not sure a system where the president gets elected by ignoring Texas, California, New York, New England etc is really a better system than a nationwide popular vote.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#25

The article focuses on the same things have been hammered on for a while now (other countries do health care better, other countries do education better, other countries do education better...), but I think there's another reason to get out of America: other countries have different cultural strengths . Antonio Cangiano wrote a post a while back about why Italy doesn't do enough startups ( http://programmingzen.com/2…

> What really strikes me, though, is that I have experienced Turkish-like hospitality from one company in the US: Apple.

Could you explain this? Because I haven't ever gotten a free iPhone for browsing in the Apple Store for ten minutes.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#26
Just today I was reading an interview with a Belgian journalist/writer, Bjorn Soenens, who travelled through America and wrote a boook about it's current state, on all levels. His conclusions were pretty much the same as in this article, although I'd also say 'darker'. Some claims he made, which I cannot verify but would love to hear comments about [I have the impression he's rather pessimistic and mainly lifts out the bad things; there's only a couple of good things he has to say about America. But even then, it's not exactly good news]:

- lots of people still believing strongly in the American Dream, thinking 'one day I'll be rich'. Resulting in hardly any complaints when the taxes are lowered for the rich poeple. Resulting in an even bigger gap between poor and rich, and a middle class that is evaporating

- it's a miracle there hasn't been a revolution. Occupy Wall Street came close, but now they went underground

- people living in their cars

- 'Reaganomics': low taxes, low influence of the government, maximum freedom for private initiative. Which basically resulted in the crisis. Another example: New Orleans during Katrina. Since Reagan the government didn't watch the dikes anymore nor built new ones, seems there were also holes in them, in the spirit that everyone would took ther own initiative when things went bad. Resulting in a disaster.

- the media only report loudly on being pro or contra something. Not about the fact that there are always more poor people for instance [this is definitely differen in Europe]

- universities like Harvard will remain good because the elite puts money in them, but the rest of the education system is a mess, resulting in students that can hardly read and write [really?]

- a lot of Americans will either not believe claims like these, or be shocked

- Obama is actually doing very well, but gets the wind ahead from all areas, esp Tea Party, which is a shame

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#27
post #17

The fascinating thing about this article is that it legitimizes the "Atlas Shrugged" response of many entrepreneurs from a progressive perspective. While there is much to be quibbled with in his analysis [1], the simple fact that we now have rationales from both sides for leaving the US and striking out abroad is extraordinarily important. Look for more people to repeat these arguments, to flee taxes, crime, and regu…

Did you read the article? The author isn't arguing that people should flee the country. At least not permanently. He's simply saying that the US could learn from other countries and that people should study/live abroad to gain new perspectives.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#28
post #6

I agree with this. My eyes opened I ways I never expected by living abroad. I thought America was safe and it is compared to Somalia but not compared to may other contries. I didn't notice this because I've been trained to ignore it. I've been trained not to walk down dark alleys. I've been trained not to leave anything visible in a car when I park it or else it will get broken into. When it had been broken into Ive…

I have never lived abroad, but everything you've said is obvious to me, because I interact with and learn about the World outside my country and have a natural tendency to question anything that politicians or people in power have to say.

People don't need to live abroad to come to these conclusions. I suspect that you're probably mistaken that living abroad did this to you, and that it would have happened anyway. It's what happens to (most) intelligent people as they age and mature.

EDIT: Re vending machines on the street, I visited Connecticut once and where I stayed, there were boxes on the street that you can put money in and take a paper out of. I'm from the UK and if you had that here, it would be fine in a lot of places, but in some places, people would set fire to them for fun. Re car crime, on the same visit I noticed that people were leaving their car windows open in a car park (it was very hot). Like hell would I risk that in this country, but I'm sure there are plenty of places where it would be fine. Every country has their share of good and bad areas. Anecdotes are fairly useless here.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#29

The article focuses on the same things have been hammered on for a while now (other countries do health care better, other countries do education better, other countries do education better...), but I think there's another reason to get out of America: other countries have different cultural strengths . Antonio Cangiano wrote a post a while back about why Italy doesn't do enough startups ( http://programmingzen.com/2…

> What really strikes me, though, is that I have experienced Turkish-like hospitality from one company in the US: Apple. Could you explain this? Because I haven't ever gotten a free iPhone for browsing in the Apple Store for ten minutes.

You wouldn't get a free rug in a Turkish rug store but Apple do go out of their way to appear inviting and helpful way beyond any of their competition.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#30
post #6

I agree with this. My eyes opened I ways I never expected by living abroad. I thought America was safe and it is compared to Somalia but not compared to may other contries. I didn't notice this because I've been trained to ignore it. I've been trained not to walk down dark alleys. I've been trained not to leave anything visible in a car when I park it or else it will get broken into. When it had been broken into Ive…

>When it had been broken into Ive been trained to blame myself for leaving something visible or parking too near the wrong neighborhood. But living abroad I learned some countries don't have these issues.

Granted there are definitely some countries with lower crime rates, but for most property theft the US is actually ranked pretty well. For auto theft, which is the closest comparable crime I can find to stereo theft with available data, the US ranks below Sweden, Switzerland, New Zealand, Australia, and Ireland. And for residential burglaries we rank below England, Scotland, Canada, the Netherlands, and Australia.

Also, as long as we are using anecdotal evidence, out of everyone I know (well enough to know this), there are maybe half a dozen who have been robbed 4 of those have been while on vacation in Europe.

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