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Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

aruarian.dance

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Re: Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

#21

Post by lhl »

eloisius wrote: post #18

I think they are even more useful in Taiwan. Every single transit system across the entire island that I’ve ever encountered accepts EasyCard (悠遊卡). Even ferries. So does every convenience store, and even a lot of proper restaurants and stores. They are also fast, like you don’t even have to break your strike while passing the turnstiles to enter the metro.

I think it's about equal for utility - Japanese Suica/Pasmo cards are also usable in every single konbini, at all the stations stores, across most regional transportation and taxis, and at maybe half of Tokyo shops/restaurants (it's a default option in AirPay and other PoS systems). A lot of vending machines accept Suica, and I use it at grocery or drug stores. You can even use it at some other types of shops like Bic Camera, although for high ticket items you're going to hit the Suica balance limits... https://www.jreast.co.jp/multi/en/suicamoney/shop.html

Re: Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

#22

Post by lhl »

This is a great writeup and reminded me of some others I've seen in the past. For those interested on the topic, I used Deep Research to generated a report on turnstile/ticketing systems compared to others like Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, London, NYC). Also asked it to do research on a few of the other related things like device licensing and the recent NFC-F chip shortages: https://chatgpt.com/share/6828429c-b618-8012-82a3-b8b992ac83...

Re: Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

#23

Post by bemmu »

lhl wrote: post #21
eloisius wrote: post #18

I think they are even more useful in Taiwan. Every single transit system across the entire island that I’ve ever encountered accepts EasyCard (悠遊卡). Even ferries. So does every convenience store, and even a lot of proper restaurants and stores. They are also fast, like you don’t even have to break your strike while passing the turnstiles to enter the metro.

I think it's about equal for utility - Japanese Suica/Pasmo cards are also usable in every single konbini, at all the stations stores, across most regional transportation and taxis, and at maybe half of Tokyo shops/restaurants (it's a default option in AirPay and other PoS systems). A lot of vending machines accept Suica, and I use it at grocery or drug stores. You can even use it at some other types of shops like Bi…

I seem to have managed to live in the only place in Japan where you can’t use suica/pasmo for transport: Tokushima. Still works in convini though.

Re: Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

#24

Post by lhl »

toxik wrote: post #6

I could use my European smartphone (well, smartwatch) as an IC card in Japan. I don't think it was slower.

It depends on the vendor and whether they are willing to pay for global licensing. For Garmin devices for example, only the APAC version have NFC-F support.

Re: Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

#25

Post by cmcaleer »

charcircuit wrote: post #20
pwim wrote: post #5

Unfortunately transit operators are looking to discontinue the use of these IC cards in favour of QR codes as part of a cost saving strategy: https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20241015/p2a/00m/0bu/01...

That article doesn't say they are. >It will continue to accept national IC cards such as Suica and Icoca

I hope it lasts, but I'm seeing gates which have QR code readers, IC card readers,and contactless payment readers, which is obviously unsustainable. One or more of these will have to give eventually, and given Japan's tolerance for QR code payments (PayPay is massive) and foreigners' familiarity with contactless it seems like IC is the most likely one to go.

I'd be sad if they do go or get relegated to some app, I love the little mascots.

Re: Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

#26

Post by tonyhart7 »

pwim wrote: post #5

Unfortunately transit operators are looking to discontinue the use of these IC cards in favour of QR codes as part of a cost saving strategy: https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20241015/p2a/00m/0bu/01...

they want to replace that for cutting cost, this system is great when in large cities but in rural areas the speed,cost etc is excessive

so there's that, I mean if we can optimize QR code system. the winner obviously would be QR because no need to have an dedicated hardware for this

Yes, IC card would be faster but at what point the difference is matters???

Re: Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

#27

Post by chgs »

zparky wrote: post #11
chgs wrote: post #8

I haven’t noticed any delay in london with a card, phone might be 200ms slower than credit catd. I Haven’t been to japan for a decade, are they really that much faster - and does it make a difference? What happens if a card is wrong/doesn’t scan/is invalid/etc at the higher speed?

I'm currently on a japan train - using a suica card is essentially instantaneous. if the cards are declined for any reason the gates swing shut immediately, if that's what you're asking.

I don’t see how that’s any different to the underground

Re: Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

#28

Post by tkgally »

Long-time Japan resident here. The IC cards do work quickly and smoothly, but the retail payment system overall is a mess because different stores accept different combinations of dozens of electronic payment brands.

When shopping, I prefer to use the Suica app in my iPhone as it’s just a quick touch, but some stores won’t accept it so I have to use the Nanaco app—which requires a face recognition step—or pay in cash. I haven’t bothered to set up a QR code app yet. Twice, when I tried to install PayPay, the most common one, I got stuck on an authentication step and gave up.

Even shops within the same department store accept different combinations of payment systems. In my local Takashimaya, I can use Suica to buy food in the basement but not in the restaurants on the upper floors. Shops in the nearby Sogo Department Store do not accept Suica, only Nanaco, except for the Starbucks on the third floor, which does accept Suica.

Convenience stores seem to accept nearly everything, as you can guess from the number of logos on this sign:

https://news.mynavi.jp/article/osusumecredit-107/images/003l...

Some relatives are arriving in Japan next Tuesday for a three-week visit, and they asked me what they should do about credit cards, digital money, cash, etc. I realized that, despite living here, I barely understood the situation myself, so I had Gemini Deep Research prepare a report for them:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WY4AM0mJS94uwPMK8XjIQMLf...

Another point to add is that in the 1980s and 1990s big security problems emerged with the magnetic cards that were used widely then for transportation and telephone calls. Here is what Perplexity has to say about that:

https://www.perplexity.ai/search/i-want-some-information-in-...

I well remember the “open street markets in urban areas like Shibuya ... known for selling counterfeit cards.”

Re: Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

#29

Post by 0xCMP »

TheChaplain wrote: post #14

I love IC cards. They had them on all transport where I live, but a few years ago they changed to QR codes.. Now it's a fiddle with an app, then try to get the right angle on a smudgy reader. Getting onboard takes much longer and it feels like technology sent us 2 steps back instead of forward. IC cards are better, and if they could be integrated in the phone then it would be even better and faster for everyone.

iOS supports ICs fine. It has supported Suica since 2017 when I used it instead of the physical card.

Forcing use of an app and QR codes does seem like a significant step back, although I guess it makes paper tickets much easier to implement with the same scanner.

Re: Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

#30

Post by oivey »

TheChaplain wrote: post #14

I love IC cards. They had them on all transport where I live, but a few years ago they changed to QR codes.. Now it's a fiddle with an app, then try to get the right angle on a smudgy reader. Getting onboard takes much longer and it feels like technology sent us 2 steps back instead of forward. IC cards are better, and if they could be integrated in the phone then it would be even better and faster for everyone.

At least in Japan, they all work from your phone already.
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