Live data from Hacker News

Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

thecoder.cafe

21–30 of 147 posts

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#21
post #9
post #2

Let's add a post scriptum: Whatever you're working on, your project is not likely to be at Google's scale and very unlikely to be a "complex system".

Managing complexity pays off sooner than one would think. Even a project that's like 15k lines of code would benefit from a conscious effort to fight against complexity.

100%

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#22
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are peer-bonuses?

The idea is if someone helps you in a really big way that you’re able to reward that. So you can ask the company to give the person either credits for an internal store, or a direct addition to their salary for one month. Obviously, there are limits to how many pay bonuses you can give out and if it’s direct money or store credits. Directly asking for a peer bonus’ is not very “googly” (and yes, this is a term they u…

My last workplace had a similar institution, only the reward was candy bar or similar that you could go grab from a bowl in the kitchen (working on an honor code basis), in addition to getting some praise on Slack for general warm fuzzies. It was more of a symbolic gesture for recognizing small everyday things, of course, but it was nice IMO.

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#24
post #10

One of my pet peeves with the usage of complex(ity) out of the traditional time/space in computer science is that most of the time the OPs of several articles over the internet do not make the distinction between boundaried/arbitrary complexity, where most of the time the person has most of the control of what is being implemented, and domain/accidental/environmental complexity, which is wide open and carries a lot o…

I’d wager 90% time spent at Google is fighting incidental organizational complexity, which is virtually unlimited.

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's add a post post scriptum :) Just because your project might not be at Google's scale doesn't mean it is therefore also not complex [^1] Example: I'd say plenty of games fit the author's definition of "complex systems". Even the well-engineered ones (and even some which could fit on a floppy disc) [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent

Speaking of games, why hasn't google made a game. They could create a gaming division and well... make one. Amazon did. I wonder why they haven't.

Google made Ingress and Pokémon go (Niantic was part of google before it was spun off).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niantic,_Inc.

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's add a post post scriptum :) Just because your project might not be at Google's scale doesn't mean it is therefore also not complex [^1] Example: I'd say plenty of games fit the author's definition of "complex systems". Even the well-engineered ones (and even some which could fit on a floppy disc) [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent

Speaking of games, why hasn't google made a game. They could create a gaming division and well... make one. Amazon did. I wonder why they haven't.

As someone who has firsthand experience:

A. The same reason Amazon had/has such a hard time.

B. Google lacking the same persistence of Amazon (Consider all the products that are killed)

C. Google's hiring process. (They organizationlly do not know how to hire specialists)

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#27
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of games, why hasn't google made a game. They could create a gaming division and well... make one. Amazon did. I wonder why they haven't.

As someone who has firsthand experience: A. The same reason Amazon had/has such a hard time. B. Google lacking the same persistence of Amazon (Consider all the products that are killed) C. Google's hiring process. (They organizationlly do not know how to hire specialists)

>B. Google lacking the same persistence of Amazon (Consider all the products that are killed)

Yah, like the Stadia, Google's streaming gaming console thing. They even had a first party game development division for it. So exactly what OP was wondering about.

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#28
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably the most accurate statement possible. “I just want to store 5TiB somewhere” “Ha! Did you book multiple bigtable cells” https://youtu.be/3t6L-FlfeaI?si=C5PJcrvLepABZsVF

What are peer-bonuses?

Something designed to remove all intrinsic motivation from employees

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#29
post #18

I think there are two myths applicable here. Probably more. One myth is that complex systems are inherently bad. Armed forces are incredibly complex. That's why it can take 10 or more rear echelon staff to support one fighting soldier. Supply chain logistics and materiel is complex. Middle ages wars stopped when gunpowder supplies ran out. Another myth is that simple systems are always better and remain simple. They…

Following the definition from the article, armed forces seems like a complicated system, not a complex one. There is a structured, repeatable solution for armed forces. It does not exhibit the hallmark characteristics of complex systems listed in the article like emergent behaviors.

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#30
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are peer-bonuses?

The idea is if someone helps you in a really big way that you’re able to reward that. So you can ask the company to give the person either credits for an internal store, or a direct addition to their salary for one month. Obviously, there are limits to how many pay bonuses you can give out and if it’s direct money or store credits. Directly asking for a peer bonus’ is not very “googly” (and yes, this is a term they u…

> The idea is if someone helps you in a really big way that you’re able to reward that

It never ceases to amaze me how (early) big tech embraced and even promoted things that would have been considered "career limiting" in traditional big corporations.

Post reply on HN