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Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

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Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#21

Post by leptons »

bhouston wrote: post #11

I feel that sound bars + speakers directly attached to TVs has decimated the "home theatre receiver." "Back in the day", home theatre receivers made sense when you wanted Radio + CD inputs in addition to the TV input. But radio and CD players are gone. There is just TV. Even when I do audio, I run it through the TV. Thus why do you need a separate box? It just seems like a waste. Instead everyone these days are just…

Most people are basic and have basic needs, and a soundbar suffices in most cases.

I was sort of one of those people, with a soundbar, because it was easy and convenient. The soundbar came with a wireless subwoofer, and that solved the problem of running wires across my living room.

But, I had a gifted B&W 5.1 system with powered sub collecting dust out in my garage for a long time. I recently made the push to dust it all off and buy a receiver to power it, replacing the soundbar+sub we had been using for years.

The difference is really night and day. The soundbar just never got loud enough for when I wanted to crank-it-up when playing music. It was good enough for watching most TV shows, but the sound we get now from a 5.1 movie is incredible in comparison.

I did the work to run completely flat speaker wires to the surround speakers, under the rug in our living room. It took some work to re-route wires and get power to where the receiver is, but it was well worth it.

The new system goes as loud as I can stand it with crystal-clarity all the way up to "11". The soundbar looks like a piece of junk in comparison and is now out in the garage collecting dust.

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#22

Post by kyriakos »

bombcar wrote: post #16
keoneflick wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, traditional receivers wanted to be the "brains" of home theater, switching video inputs, managing audio, turning everything on. That role is no longer sensible when used with smart TVs/Apple TV boxes/Android TV boxes. As a result, traditional receivers are relegated to be being audio decoders and amplifiers. Honestly, I think there's already more manufactured and lying around than the world really needs…

eARC or whatever it is really changed this. I don't need a receiver with buttons anymore, I just need one that handles eARC gracefully. We're about five years away from "no remotes" anymore, imo. As it is I only need to find the TV remote when something goes really wonky - and even then I can reset it by using the smart app to power cycle the outlet ;)

eARC is amazing tech - when it works.

I have a recent top of the line Samsung TV, and last year's 5.1 Samsung soundbar and even though both components are from the same brand there are some very frustrating times eARC fails. The rest of the time it works like magic.

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#23

Post by kyriakos »

neogodless wrote: post #5
dsr_ wrote: post #4

There are lots of speaker manufacturers; I'm not too concerned about Polk and B&W. But! There are relatively few home theater receiver makers, and the Denon/Marantz siblings have been a big chunk of them for decades. (Sony, Yamaha, Onkyo, Denon. Nobody else covers the low and mid cost market.)

I'm curious how large this market is. Speaking only anecdotally, when I was in my 20s, I bought a Sony "home theatre in a box" which included receiver, small subwoofer, and small satellite speakers. Over time, I upgraded to an Onkyo reciever and Polk center, surrounds, and subwoofer. But... then I decided I wanted a more minimal look, and switched to a JBL sound bar + subwoofer, which has detachable surrounds -- but…

There are some exaggerated setups showcased by users on reddit (/r/hometheater) You can see people with dedicated movie theatre-like rooms in their home. If you follow the discussions they all seem to have started where you did in your 20s and continued in the opposite direction.

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#24

Post by dylan604 »

kyriakos wrote: post #22
bombcar wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eARC or whatever it is really changed this. I don't need a receiver with buttons anymore, I just need one that handles eARC gracefully. We're about five years away from "no remotes" anymore, imo. As it is I only need to find the TV remote when something goes really wonky - and even then I can reset it by using the smart app to power cycle the outlet ;)

eARC is amazing tech - when it works. I have a recent top of the line Samsung TV, and last year's 5.1 Samsung soundbar and even though both components are from the same brand there are some very frustrating times eARC fails. The rest of the time it works like magic.

I often get weird issues using the ARC, and have never tracked it down. I don't know if it is the audio device of the TV. Randomly, the audio will get all distorted for a random amount of time, and then suddenly it snaps back to normal. I never looked into the format to see if there's some sort of re-sync signal sent periodically that is part of ARC, but that would make sense to me based on observed behavior. When the audio gets weird, it's sounds like some sort of sample rate issue as the sound changes pitch, plays distorted, and goes out of sync with the video.

My TV and audio equipment happen to have an optical connection and after switching to that away from ARC, the issue has gone away.

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#26

Post by hulitu »

bhouston wrote: post #11

I feel that sound bars + speakers directly attached to TVs has decimated the "home theatre receiver." "Back in the day", home theatre receivers made sense when you wanted Radio + CD inputs in addition to the TV input. But radio and CD players are gone. There is just TV. Even when I do audio, I run it through the TV. Thus why do you need a separate box? It just seems like a waste. Instead everyone these days are just…

> Thus why do you need a separate box? It just seems like a waste

The sound quality of modern TV is absymal. The digital compression does play its part, but the speakers and the case are crap.

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#27

Post by mikepurvis »

bombcar wrote: post #16
keoneflick wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, traditional receivers wanted to be the "brains" of home theater, switching video inputs, managing audio, turning everything on. That role is no longer sensible when used with smart TVs/Apple TV boxes/Android TV boxes. As a result, traditional receivers are relegated to be being audio decoders and amplifiers. Honestly, I think there's already more manufactured and lying around than the world really needs…

eARC or whatever it is really changed this. I don't need a receiver with buttons anymore, I just need one that handles eARC gracefully. We're about five years away from "no remotes" anymore, imo. As it is I only need to find the TV remote when something goes really wonky - and even then I can reset it by using the smart app to power cycle the outlet ;)

For a wall-mounted TV, it's still pretty essential to get a single cable run to it, vs needing to plug in each device individually. That said, it's curious how the multiplexing and audio amp functionality ended up in the same box.

Really what it should be is:

- a "remote" multiplexer comes in the box with my TV. It speaks HDMI/CEC to the TV telling it what input is active so that the TV's UI can reflect that and it can do things like switch between movie and game mode picture tuning.

- the former AVR should become a purely eARC box with no buttons, not even a power button— it comes on on command of the TV, and adjusts its amplification volume according to the same eARC signals that a soundbar uses. Any initial calibration or speaker setup is done via a single-use phone app.

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#28

Post by kyriakos »

neuroelectron wrote: post #17
bhouston wrote: post #11

I feel that sound bars + speakers directly attached to TVs has decimated the "home theatre receiver." "Back in the day", home theatre receivers made sense when you wanted Radio + CD inputs in addition to the TV input. But radio and CD players are gone. There is just TV. Even when I do audio, I run it through the TV. Thus why do you need a separate box? It just seems like a waste. Instead everyone these days are just…

I feel like this is tied to the overall decline in movie and music quality. Maybe I'm just getting old. There is no more "Titanic" or "Nirvana". Lots of people have noticed the decline in audio mixing in movies as well, which has led to a generation of younger adults who need captions for regular movies. A discrete audio system would probably help with this but for what? How many times are you going to watch latest A…

There are 2 problems currently with movie audio. One is that the channel separation is not as good as it used to be. New movies have 5.1 audio the effect is minimal which no longer justifies the expense on the sound system. People online are saying this is because many movies are made for primarily for streaming and that majority of people listen on their TV or sound bar instead of dedicated surround systems.

The second issue is what you described, the mixing is just bad, sound effects and music are much louder than dialog making it impossible to comprehend without subtitles.

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#29

Post by dylan604 »

bombcar wrote: post #19
neogodless wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious how large this market is. Speaking only anecdotally, when I was in my 20s, I bought a Sony "home theatre in a box" which included receiver, small subwoofer, and small satellite speakers. Over time, I upgraded to an Onkyo reciever and Polk center, surrounds, and subwoofer. But... then I decided I wanted a more minimal look, and switched to a JBL sound bar + subwoofer, which has detachable surrounds -- but…

You could estimate it from sales or something, but Walmart has a huge wall full of various TVs, and barely one half of one aisle-side of soundbars, and no receivers/speaker setups. I suspect something like 80% of people use the TV, and of those who upgrade, use a soundbar, maybe. And even those with a dedicated theatre room, probably have other TVs that are just TV audio.

That's a really sad percentage of people listening to such subpar sound that they might as well not be. I understand not everyone can afford nice audio, but a soundbar is such a drastic improvement, VHS=>DVD level of improvement, while a soundbar to surround is a DVD=>BluRay improvement. It's great for those with discerning taste, but not noticed by the vast majority.

Granted, I'm not an audiophile, but I've been in/around audio mix bays long enough that I notice shit audio. It's one of those things that once you see/hear it, you can't un-see/un-hear it. Sometimes I really wish I took the blue pill in this regard

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#30

Post by Marsymars »

dylan604 wrote: post #24
kyriakos wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eARC is amazing tech - when it works. I have a recent top of the line Samsung TV, and last year's 5.1 Samsung soundbar and even though both components are from the same brand there are some very frustrating times eARC fails. The rest of the time it works like magic.

I often get weird issues using the ARC, and have never tracked it down. I don't know if it is the audio device of the TV. Randomly, the audio will get all distorted for a random amount of time, and then suddenly it snaps back to normal. I never looked into the format to see if there's some sort of re-sync signal sent periodically that is part of ARC, but that would make sense to me based on observed behavior. When th…

I had perfectly working eARC for over a year until I started getting random audio dropouts. After months, I figured out they were due to my Wii U coming out of standby and checking for updates on a different HDMI port. I think it worked fine before a firmware update to either my TV or my soundbar. Works fine again after disabling the Wii U's background updates.
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