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AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence

bbc.com

21–30 of 104 posts

Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence

#21
post #12

I’m not a German so take this with a massive amount of salt, but what makes them extreme-right? Is it the anti-immigrant stance or is there more that I’m missing? They just seem to be regular right wing by American standards.

In simple terms, Trump's current administration is the AfD's wet dream. Talk big about free speech and free market, state's rights, cracking down on immigration, all the populist talking points. Then play the victim whenever things don't work out, dismantle regulatory bodies and oversight committees, and selectively apply the law depending on loyalty and conformity.

Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence

#25
post #12

I’m not a German so take this with a massive amount of salt, but what makes them extreme-right? Is it the anti-immigrant stance or is there more that I’m missing? They just seem to be regular right wing by American standards.

They're nazis, chief

Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence

#26
post #18
post #12

I’m not a German so take this with a massive amount of salt, but what makes them extreme-right? Is it the anti-immigrant stance or is there more that I’m missing? They just seem to be regular right wing by American standards.

This should tell you more about how far right America has gotten. What's your definition of extreme-right and why don't they fit it? Both the GOP and the AFD are acting extra-constitutionally. Trump's administration has shown to Europeans that needed a reminder how dangerous these politics can be.

Is the AfD acting extra-constitutionally? Or are they just proposing to do so? They aren't actually in power, are they? If not, how are they "acting" at all?

(Not German, so I don't know. Honest questions from an incomplete understanding.)

Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence

#27
post #12

I’m not a German so take this with a massive amount of salt, but what makes them extreme-right? Is it the anti-immigrant stance or is there more that I’m missing? They just seem to be regular right wing by American standards.

The party's prevailing ethnic and descent-based understanding of the people is not compatible with the free democratic basic order. It aims to exclude certain population groups from equal participation in society, to subject them to unequal treatment that does not conform to the constitution and thus to assign them a legally devalued status. Specifically, the AfD does not consider German citizens with a history of migration from Muslim countries, for example, to be equal members of the German people as defined by the party in ethnic terms.

This exclusionary understanding of the people is the starting point and ideological basis for continuous agitation against certain people or groups of people, with which they are defamed and disparaged across the board and irrational fears and rejection of them are stirred up. This can be seen in the large number of ongoing anti-foreigner, anti-minority, anti-Islam and anti-Muslim statements made by leading party functionaries.

Translated via deepl from https://www.verfassungsschutz.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilung...

Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence

#28
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what your point is. The AfD is not the first extreme right party to gain a sizeable number of seats. And yes, if they continue to win elections with an ever growing percentage of votes, at one point they will rule, and could eventually change the constitution if they gain a supermajority. This happened before (it's a been a while though). Until that happens, they are beholden to the law like any other politi…

>Not sure what your point is. The AfD is not the first extreme right party to gain a sizeable number of seats. Firstly I get the nazi thing and the laws are set to prevent another instance. AFD obviously still exists so a court has not banned them. Innocent until proven guilty. The flipside problem is that these anti-nazi measures can be abused, false positive type situation. The measures would of course need to be b…

> AFD obviously still exists so a court has not banned them. Innocent until proven guilty.

A court can only ban them after the parliament has voted to ban them. One of the hurdles on getting the parliament to vote on this topic has been the outstanding decision by this body, if it's really "gesichert rechtsextrem". At least in many previous cases surrounding this question (mostly libel cases), courts have argued that the specific people these cases were about could be seen as "outside of the democratic spectrum".

> The measures would of course need to be biased toward false-postives to prevent future false negatives.

Certainly, that's why both the parliament and the highest court have to decide, with previous instances sometimes not coming through (for example, the NPD for not being relevant even though they were certainly Nazis).

> That the afd growth of doubling their power since last election and AFD is now polling in first place. So to win the next election they need to essentially remove AFD from being an option; or los

There would be no reason to ban a party if they could be ignored (see the NPD), you only need to ban extreme parties if they're popular. If the AfD were at 3% this would be a much smaller topic, since there would be no foreseeable risk. But even with the AfD at much lower than <15%, this was very much an area of concern, with steady (legal, as with this classification and previous ones concerning subgroups) progress towards establishing their extremist status.

Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence

#29
post #15

I wish there was tighter rules around what stays on the front page of HN. I come here for tech news or interesting nerdy blog posts not this stuff.

Those posts generally don't stay there more than a few minutes. Feel free to hide them. But I agree with you on a point, I wish it was better specified which kinds of politics are allowed or not and when.

Edit: aaand it's flagged.

Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence

#30
post #12

I’m not a German so take this with a massive amount of salt, but what makes them extreme-right? Is it the anti-immigrant stance or is there more that I’m missing? They just seem to be regular right wing by American standards.

The 'core feature' to get the extremist label (no matter if left- or right-extremist) is the goal to overthrow the 'Liberal democratic basic order':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democratic_basic_order

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