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RFK Jr is wrong – there's a rich history of autistic poets

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Re: RFK Jr is wrong – there's a rich history of autistic poets

#21

Post by card_zero »

foogazi wrote: post #18
card_zero wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quote is: "And these are kids who will never pay taxes, they’ll never hold a job, they’ll never play baseball, they’ll never write a poem, they’ll never go out on a date. Many of them will never use a toilet unassisted." ... "Most cases now are severe. Twenty-five percent of the kids who are diagnosed with autism are nonverbal, non-toilet-trained, and have other stereotypical features." Then pbs fact-checking is…

> Most cases now are severe. Wasn’t this always the case?

I don't even know what it means, 25% isn't "most".

Re: RFK Jr is wrong – there's a rich history of autistic poets

#23

Post by eddie_lemons »

card_zero wrote: post #16
theFco wrote: post #5

I feel the statement "autistic people will never write a poem" may be trivially true, because (I suspect) many people will never write a poem. The implication that this is invalid or wrong is perverse. And the fact that now we have to argue for the dignity of autistic people by saying that there are autistic poets is also non-sensical. These are all cruel suggestions about people, we should challenge why RFK makes st…

The quote is: "And these are kids who will never pay taxes, they’ll never hold a job, they’ll never play baseball, they’ll never write a poem, they’ll never go out on a date. Many of them will never use a toilet unassisted." ... "Most cases now are severe. Twenty-five percent of the kids who are diagnosed with autism are nonverbal, non-toilet-trained, and have other stereotypical features." Then pbs fact-checking is…

[flagged]

Re: RFK Jr is wrong – there's a rich history of autistic poets

#24

Post by DarkWiiPlayer »

foogazi wrote: post #18
card_zero wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quote is: "And these are kids who will never pay taxes, they’ll never hold a job, they’ll never play baseball, they’ll never write a poem, they’ll never go out on a date. Many of them will never use a toilet unassisted." ... "Most cases now are severe. Twenty-five percent of the kids who are diagnosed with autism are nonverbal, non-toilet-trained, and have other stereotypical features." Then pbs fact-checking is…

> Most cases now are severe. Wasn’t this always the case?

I'm pretty sure it's the opposite, and the rise in autism diagnoses is almost entirely people who overall function well in society and wouldn't have been diagnosed in the past.

So to me it would be very surprising if the ratio wasn't shifting away from serious cases of autism.

If that wasn't the case, and cases of actally disabling autism were on the rise, I'd think actual scientists would be trying to find the cause, yet all we ever hear from is conspiracy idiots trying to blame anything from vaccines to "the Jews" for autism.

Re: RFK Jr is wrong – there's a rich history of autistic poets

#25

Post by the_gipsy »

sebstefan wrote: post #22

He also said that they will never pay taxes and never hold a job. Insane statement for anyone in the tech industry.

Scarily close to Nazi propaganda showing the cost of disabled persons to society: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/photo/propaganda-s...

Re: RFK Jr is wrong – there's a rich history of autistic poets

#26

Post by the_gipsy »

arcticfox wrote: post #9

> As an autistic English professor who studies literature and neurodiversity, I was especially unnerved by Kennedy’s contention that many autistic people will never write poetry. > It couldn’t be further from the truth. Screw this English professor with autism - RFK's comments are literally correct if you read them. Many autistic people like my child will never speak , he's not talking about English professors with l…

Do you want to calculate how much your disabled child costs us healthy families next? It would be "literally correct" too.

Re: RFK Jr is wrong – there's a rich history of autistic poets

#27

Post by Shog9 »

normalaccess wrote: post #15
schnable wrote: post #8

RFK never said or implied that all people with autism are non-functional in important areas. It's true that a significant number are, and it's really strange and perhaps cruel to see people trying to erase that. And it doesn't make it less of an issue to address even if some of those people write poetry.

I feel like there is a group of people that *deeply* want the autism rates to continue at the rate they are at due to some strange ideation. It's hard to describe what I mean, but the closest thing I can think of is a social contagion or a society wide Munchausen syndrome by proxy. Does that make sense?

No.

We don't have a cure for autism.

We don't have a prevention for autism.

We don't have a clear cause for autism beyond recognizing that genetics play a role.

We don't even have a clear picture of the scope; one reason rates appear to be increasing is simply that we've gotten better at recognizing symptoms in previously ignored populations. But... We are probably still ignoring symptoms in some significant populations.

It is completely understandable that, as we learn more and the scope of the problem becomes more apparent, folks are alarmed and clamoring for politicians to Do Something.

...it is less apparent that there is anything productive to be done, beyond continued efforts to better understand the situation.

We (as a society) and Kennedy in particular (within his own family), have ample experience with the harms wrought by efforts to Do Something when no effective solution exists.

Re: RFK Jr is wrong – there's a rich history of autistic poets

#28

Post by orwin »

normalaccess wrote: post #15
schnable wrote: post #8

RFK never said or implied that all people with autism are non-functional in important areas. It's true that a significant number are, and it's really strange and perhaps cruel to see people trying to erase that. And it doesn't make it less of an issue to address even if some of those people write poetry.

I feel like there is a group of people that *deeply* want the autism rates to continue at the rate they are at due to some strange ideation. It's hard to describe what I mean, but the closest thing I can think of is a social contagion or a society wide Munchausen syndrome by proxy. Does that make sense?

That doesn't make any sense. The percentage of people with severe autism barely grew, and is loosely correlated to the mother age.

The diagnosis of autism grow, but mostly because a lot more people are diagnosed with autism. I don't like that sentence, but modern autism is more of a social construct than what autism used to be.

'on the spectrum' is probably to me a big lie. I've worked (as a counsellor) with genuine autistic people, non-communicative or not, and frankly if you've learned to mask and to lie on your own, with intent (I did) or naturally (most people do), you shouldn't be considered autistic. Or at least you shouldn't hide behind your diagnostic.

Re: RFK Jr is wrong – there's a rich history of autistic poets

#29

Post by arcticfox »

the_gipsy wrote: post #26
arcticfox wrote: post #9

> As an autistic English professor who studies literature and neurodiversity, I was especially unnerved by Kennedy’s contention that many autistic people will never write poetry. > It couldn’t be further from the truth. Screw this English professor with autism - RFK's comments are literally correct if you read them. Many autistic people like my child will never speak , he's not talking about English professors with l…

Do you want to calculate how much your disabled child costs us healthy families next? It would be "literally correct" too.

An enormous amount, unfortunately for everyone? As it should, in a healthy society.

I think you misread my politics because I think attacking RFK over this point is stupid, counterproductive, and condescending. He is going to cause harm a million ways but this is not it. He is obviously not talking about the English professor who has had a very successful life. The author is trying to do a "well actually" here and missing the entire point, as well as being literally wrong when you read the words. So even a generous, pedantic angle is stupid.

For the record, I align completely with this liberal commentary in the NYT this week, that is 10x more eloquent than I am: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/25/opinion/autism-rfk-parent...

Re: RFK Jr is wrong – there's a rich history of autistic poets

#30

Post by efa »

card_zero wrote: post #16
theFco wrote: post #5

I feel the statement "autistic people will never write a poem" may be trivially true, because (I suspect) many people will never write a poem. The implication that this is invalid or wrong is perverse. And the fact that now we have to argue for the dignity of autistic people by saying that there are autistic poets is also non-sensical. These are all cruel suggestions about people, we should challenge why RFK makes st…

The quote is: "And these are kids who will never pay taxes, they’ll never hold a job, they’ll never play baseball, they’ll never write a poem, they’ll never go out on a date. Many of them will never use a toilet unassisted." ... "Most cases now are severe. Twenty-five percent of the kids who are diagnosed with autism are nonverbal, non-toilet-trained, and have other stereotypical features." Then pbs fact-checking is…

Thank you. Read the whole quote. He's just listing everyday things most people take for granted. Pointing out that these people won't be able to do them. Stupid to zero in on "write a poem". BTW, George Bernard Shaw did not have level 3 autism.
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