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Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

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Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#21

Post by cycrutchfield »

briandear wrote: post #2

> However, even if a tipped worker provides excellent service, studies have shown that certain biases can affect tipping, especially against women and women of color. Tipping creates a dining system where people of color, elders, women, and those of foreign descent get worse service. Because those groups typically tip less or not at all. Although I never found that to be true with women. And “people of color” in the…

You sure you want to post your racist generalizations on a public forum with your real name attached to it?

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#22

Post by gnopgnip »

janalsncm wrote: post #18

I hate tipping. The last think I want to do after eating is math. And don’t get me started on the inefficient payment ritual we have to endure: flag down the waiter for the check, wait for the check, wait for them to take your cc, wait for them to ring it up and bring it back, then do some math. Unnecessary. That said, minimum wage is minimum wage. If an employee doesn’t make that up in tips, the law is that the rest…

An employer only needs to pay more if tips don’t make up minimum wage over the pay period. So that 2x 30 mins every shift spent cleaning is paid at $2.13 an hour

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#23

Post by conductr »

tptacek wrote: post #20
janalsncm wrote: post #18

I hate tipping. The last think I want to do after eating is math. And don’t get me started on the inefficient payment ritual we have to endure: flag down the waiter for the check, wait for the check, wait for them to take your cc, wait for them to ring it up and bring it back, then do some math. Unnecessary. That said, minimum wage is minimum wage. If an employee doesn’t make that up in tips, the law is that the rest…

Servers at a lot of restaurants don't expect to make minimum wage, so don't let "the owners will have have to true comp up to minimum wage" function as an excuse not to tip. If you don't want to tip, don't dine at full-service restaurants in America.

Servers are typically loving the current state because they frequently make way more than minimum wage(after tips). They all know they’d make the equivalent of back of house/fast food wages if the employer was paying it in full.

Despite this the general attitude is such that most people are cheap for anything less than ~20%, I’ve heard that even the servers running the take out stand expect these types of tips. The sense of entitlement is crazy, it’s such a low skill job and I’m so rarely actually impressed by the service or even attention I receive (there’s a general/generational degradation of all service that’s occurred in past say 15-20 years).

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#24

Post by n4r9 »

tptacek wrote: post #19
n4r9 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing they mean that without tipping, more of the restaurant's revenue would go towards wages.

Sure, but the prices would also be commensurately higher.

Does that make it not a subsidy? We say that the US govt subsidises oil companies even though petrol prices would be higher if they stopped.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#25

Post by ramesh31 »

Ask any server if they want to get rid of tips, even given an hourly wage that would be comparable, and the vast majority will say no. Those regulars who come in and slip you a $50 bill every now and then blows any kind of "fair wage" a restaraunt could pay you out of the water.

It's like working on comission. Americans are rich (comparatively, globally). For all of our gripes we still have the highest disposable income by a long shot. Many can and do enjoy tipping their waitsaff gratuitously in exchange for their service. It's the only way serving can possibly ever be anything more than low wage drudgery, given the margins of food service.

If you can't afford to tip, you cant afford to eat out, plain and simple. Go to the grocery store.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#26

Post by dewey »

eru wrote: post #13
edent wrote: post #4

The service in most American restaurants isn't good; it is obsequious. It is disturbing how many Americans don't notice this.

Still better than being ignored like eg can often happen in German restaurants.

Sounds like you need to pick better places.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#27

Post by NitpickLawyer »

vldmrs wrote: post #14

As a European, I can safely say that tipping in American restaurants is one of the most unusual things I remember about America. The amount of tips is huge and they are demanded of you everywhere

While we used to have "rounding up" tipping here as well (closest 5 or 10, depending on where you lived), it's sadly becoming norm to ask for percentage based tipping in europe as well, especially in the more touristy places.

This is what I don't get about tipping percentage based. It makes no sense to me. The serving effort is exactly the same between a 10$ salad and a 100$ steak. Take plate, bring plate, place plate on table, smile and check back. That's it.

It gets even more obnoxious when dealing with drinks. A 20$ bottle of wine requires the same effort as a 200$ bottle of wine. (well, except that pretentious bs about breaking the glass, but that's ridiculous anyway)

Same goes for drinks at bars. 5$ shot of your cheapest whiskey takes the same effort as a 50-500$ of a top shelf / ridiculously rare whiskey. Tipping a percentage of that makes absolutely no sense at all, and people defending it with "you get better service" really should visit high end restaurants in London / Paris etc. and see what "great service" really means.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#28

Post by shermantanktop »

tptacek wrote: post #17
vldmrs wrote: post #14

As a European, I can safely say that tipping in American restaurants is one of the most unusual things I remember about America. The amount of tips is huge and they are demanded of you everywhere

Correct. They are demanded of you everywhere.

And European tourists are notorious for not tipping, because they have not taken the time to understand our bizarre customs which we don’t even like.

Combine that with the fact that tourists everywhere are more difficult and time-consuming to deal with and it’s a recipe for resentment.

Just last week I saw a group of Spanish visitors to NYC create a confusing maelstrom of orders at a coffee shop and then override the tip to zero, all while shouting across the room to each other.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#29

Post by 10000truths »

tptacek wrote: post #19
n4r9 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing they mean that without tipping, more of the restaurant's revenue would go towards wages.

Sure, but the prices would also be commensurately higher.

The consumer already paying the "higher price" through tips. I much prefer transparent pricing with no hidden expectations or fees.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#30

Post by xoa »

tptacek wrote: post #19
n4r9 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing they mean that without tipping, more of the restaurant's revenue would go towards wages.

Sure, but the prices would also be commensurately higher.

>but the prices would also be commensurately higher.

No, the prices would be more transparent, not higher. You've made clear in other comments ITT that you believe tipping to be mandatory ("If you don't want to tip, don't dine at full-service restaurants in America"), which means you consider prices 15% or more higher then sticker price to already be the rule. Requiring that to be part of the advertised price instead of hidden is purely good for free market efficiency. Anything that isn't fully optional should be part of the advertised price. The employers and employees have superior information for correct decisions, and once a transaction (dining) has already been committed to a superior position of power as well.

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