My younger bro is convinced phones are eavesdropping on conversations and got particularly paranoid (I thought) a year or so back in regard to talking in earshot of his phone. His evidence is empirical - Apparently he gets pretty high with friends and shit talks - but when when the search started to suggest some pretty way out things along the same lines, he landed that their conversations weren't private any more. S…
Something I discovered when going down this rabbit hole is that if you had that conversation in your house and your visitors have access to your wifi, it may be that they performed the search without you knowing, and your ISP connected that data to you and sold it (as they do).
Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing
21–30 of 336 posts
Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing
#22State of the art about 10 years ago was 4 9s of accuracy predicting click-through rates from the available context (features for user profile, current website, keywords, etc.), which I interpreted as requiring a fairly accurate learned model of human behavior. I got out of that industry so I don't know what current SOTA is for adtech, but I can only imagine it is better. The models were trained on automatically labelled data (GB/s of it) based on actual recent click-through rates so the amount of training data was roughly comparable to small LLMs.
Recent anecdote; three of us were sitting around the kitchen table with our phones out chatting about an obscure new thing that had come up; it appeared in one of our FB ad streams pretty quickly.
My top guesses about how this is possible today;
1) Apps routinely link many third-party data gathering and advertising libraries. Any of these libraries could be gathering enough contextual data and reselling it to make a correlation possible. It's not just obscure thing A that triggers an ad, it's highly correlated mixtures of normal things X, Y and Z that can imply A.
2) other friends may have talked about the obscure thing recently and social network links implied we would be aware of it through them.
Distant 3) the models are actually good enough to infer speech from weird side-channels like the accelerometer when people wave their hands when they talk, etc. Accelerometer sample rate is < 1KHz but over 100Hz which may be enough, especially when you throw giant models at it.
Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing
#23I seem to recall that state of the art audio encoding can compress voice to 8kbit/s which is a single packet per second, insignificant compared to how chatty your device is. Trivial to buffer and send during a period of activity. It sums to 1.7MB over the 30 minute window in the article graphs which should be visible if it is actually counted. Why would apple or google actually make it count though? They want to spy…
I'm also not sure how easy keylogging is these days, is there even a permission that allows it? I supposed there's ways to do it with custom keyboards. Google/Apple doing it themselves would be a pretty big deal.
Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing
#24I seem to recall that state of the art audio encoding can compress voice to 8kbit/s which is a single packet per second, insignificant compared to how chatty your device is. Trivial to buffer and send during a period of activity. It sums to 1.7MB over the 30 minute window in the article graphs which should be visible if it is actually counted. Why would apple or google actually make it count though? They want to spy…
Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing
#25There's a nation proud of overspinning enrichment turbines with a complicated computer virus that can even work offline. No conspiracy, that's just StuxNet. So, when you start learning about tech, you get paranoid. If you're not, it's even weirder. The fact that someone can target you, individually, is undisputable. Whether it will or not, that's another question. What I can recommend if you think you are being obser…
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Information that travels backwards in time is one of them. I have a pretty good idea on how it could be possible and who would have the resources to do it.
God is also another. However, I am a very unorthodox student of religion. I deeply respect anyone that uses it to foster a good behavior. Whoever uses it to trick others, I tend to see more as an act of hostility towards innocent believers. Like, if someone tries to put me into a religion mindset just to fuck with me, it's a dick move.
What I know for sure is that God would not make mistakes. Whatever monitors me, does. It did so many times. I know it embarrasses them. It's delightful in that sense. So, yeah. God might exist, but I ain't talking about it when I describe paranoia.
Another thing that is quite recent in my studies is psychology and how we are all so vulnerable to it. I started to despise it a little bit. How come it never solved so many issues? How come it seems to put them to evidence but not fix them, and by putting them to evidence, make them worse?
Anyway. Do you want even more paranoia? If you like it, I should be supposed to charge for it, you know.
Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing
#26> As far as anyone could understand, the proposed CMG system wasn't listening through a phone's microphone 24/7, instead it was using those small slivers of voice data that are recorded and uploaded to the cloud in the moments after you activate your voice assistant with a "Hey Google" or "Hey Siri" command. That's not quite accurate. The CMG thing was very clearly a case of advertising sales people getting over-exci…
"Convincing people of this is basically impossible. It doesn’t matter how good your argument is, if someone has ever seen an ad that relates to their previous voice conversation they are likely convinced and there’s nothing you can do to talk them out of it." It sounds more like we have evidence of what we believe, you think we should toss the evidence for your counter-theory, and people won't do that. We also have a…
Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing
#27> There is no easy way to close this privacy opening Sure there is. Hide screenshot taking behind permission and slap down hard apps that refuse to operate without them.
Now, what could reasonably be a permission is "access the internet", but our overlords don't approve of that thought.
(Contrast this to web pages, which do not render themselves and thus can sensibly be blocked from screenshotting)
Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing
#28> "Apps were automatically taking screenshots of themselves and sending them to third parties. In one case, the app took video of the screen activity and sent that information to a third party.” > Out of over 17,000 Android apps examined, more than 9,000 had potential permissions to take screenshots. And a number of apps were found to actively be doing so, taking screenshots and sending them to third-party sources. W…
Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing
#29There's a nation proud of overspinning enrichment turbines with a complicated computer virus that can even work offline. No conspiracy, that's just StuxNet. So, when you start learning about tech, you get paranoid. If you're not, it's even weirder. The fact that someone can target you, individually, is undisputable. Whether it will or not, that's another question. What I can recommend if you think you are being obser…
Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing
#30My younger bro is convinced phones are eavesdropping on conversations and got particularly paranoid (I thought) a year or so back in regard to talking in earshot of his phone. His evidence is empirical - Apparently he gets pretty high with friends and shit talks - but when when the search started to suggest some pretty way out things along the same lines, he landed that their conversations weren't private any more. S…
Something I discovered when going down this rabbit hole is that if you had that conversation in your house and your visitors have access to your wifi, it may be that they performed the search without you knowing, and your ISP connected that data to you and sold it (as they do).