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What should third world dev do in this economy?

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Re: What should third world dev do in this economy?

#21

Post by augusto-moura »

newprint wrote: post #18

Hello, software dev. from the US, but I'm originally from E. Europe and went through Soviet Union collapse, societal disintegration,rampant crime, poverty and seen lot of very high caliber people (PhD scientists/engineers) who unfortunately were thrown into fringe of the society or life completely side-stepped them. What you can do ? You are 19. Get physically strong (exercise), have a skill(s) to do manual job (like…

I believe getting a job "just" to get by should be easy, there are plenty of entry and manual jobs to start from, specially if you are young. Construction, farming, auto-mechanic, or even flipping burgers. The true challenge is getting a good pay, or getting social momentum to get out of the situation, there is only a few careers that allow smart people to get out of the "shithole" (pardon my french). IT, for the longest time, was one of such careers.

Surely IT is still a solid career choice for the next 10 years, probably. But if in the past I couldn't find a way on how IT could get outdated or out of fashion, with all the current instabilities, and the sheer number of people getting in the field every year, I kinda see the end of the tunnel. It might be that in the next few decades IT work will be as basic as blue collars, which is not bad per se, but very different from what most people expect.

Re: What should third world dev do in this economy?

#22

Post by antisthenes »

gagabity wrote: post #15

You are mostly asking the wrong people, the reality for most in here has absolutely nothing to do with your situation, they can hardly comprehend it. Look at what other people in your community did or ask them. As someone who left a developing country I would say get a degree any degree really and then get a job and some savings, you can then apply to a masters program abroad, a lot of countries this will be free wit…

This is good advice. I will echo this by saying - ask within your community, start with your parents and see if they have any advice or anyone who needs work.

Maybe some trades can be done on the side? Plumbing/Electric/HVAC? These are not fancy or glorious and won't get you rich, but quality tradesman work will always be in demand.

Re: What should third world dev do in this economy?

#23

Post by wenc »

antisthenes wrote: post #22
gagabity wrote: post #15

You are mostly asking the wrong people, the reality for most in here has absolutely nothing to do with your situation, they can hardly comprehend it. Look at what other people in your community did or ask them. As someone who left a developing country I would say get a degree any degree really and then get a job and some savings, you can then apply to a masters program abroad, a lot of countries this will be free wit…

This is good advice. I will echo this by saying - ask within your community, start with your parents and see if they have any advice or anyone who needs work. Maybe some trades can be done on the side? Plumbing/Electric/HVAC? These are not fancy or glorious and won't get you rich, but quality tradesman work will always be in demand.

> Maybe some trades can be done on the side? Plumbing/Electric/HVAC? These are not fancy or glorious and won't get you rich, but quality tradesman work will always be in demand.

In developing countries (I grew up in one), the trades (especially the ones you listed) don't pay well and are considered undesirable jobs.

The situation is interestingly reversed in first world Western countries, where trades people make 6 figures. This is rarely true anywhere else in the world.

The path to making money in a developing country -- without a degree -- is to run your own business. That, or to get into a very specialized, high-hazard or and very high skill trades, like underwater welding (for ships), piloting a plane (you start off as a cadet -- the airline will train you -- and slog for years to become a captain), etc.

Re: What should third world dev do in this economy?

#24

Post by wenc »

nchmy wrote: post #4

Undergrad is wholly unnecessary for most people. I don't have a particular solution for you, but where there's tremendous issues, there's tremendous opportunity. So, I'd encourage you to focus on trying to address the needs of your community and broader country, in one way or another - perhaps digitally, perhaps not. Look at what Grameen did for some inspiration.

In many developing countries, I would say it's the reverse. Undergrad is actually "necessary" for most average people -- it's the minimum bar for white collar employment; the only exceptions are people who are have rare, valuable skills.

In Western countries, it's way easier (it's more difficult now, but still fairly easy) to get to a middle-class life without a college degree. I've lived in developing countries and when I moved to the west, I realized America, and many western countries, are actually outliers. In a developing country, especially populous ones, this is decidedly not the case.

In many third world countries, the path to a good income for people without college degrees is typically to run your own business (not everyone makes it, but at least it's a reasonable path). It requires working long hours, business acumen (understanding velocity of money, not just profit margin [1]), and pivoting a lot. Many of my family members without college degrees made it this way.

An uncle apprenticed with a carpenter to learn the furniture business, and slogged for years. But he saved aggressively and managed to open his own business, and understood the business cycle -- optimizing for cashflow rather than profit. He's doing well today.

[1] https://commoncog.com/what-the-ceo-wants-you-to-know/

Re: What should third world dev do in this economy?

#26

Post by whereistejas »

I strongly empathise with your situation. The definition of security and success in south asian countries is wildly different from that in the West. I’m 28 and I moved to the UK, 3 years ago. I did a bunch of open-source work and found an employer who hired me based on my contributions and was willing to sponsor my visa. Other than going to university, open-source contributions are the only option people like us to move to the West.

I understand why you feel like everything is chaotic. But, remember that most people don’t have the kind of time you have (you are only 19 and can afford to take a lot of risks). There maybe many things that are not in your favour, but you also have things that give you an advantage over others. I didn’t even know HN existed until I was 24. Ignore the chaos, focus on yourself. Apna time ayega.

Re: What should third world dev do in this economy?

#28

Post by helenthomas98 »

gagabity wrote: post #15

You are mostly asking the wrong people, the reality for most in here has absolutely nothing to do with your situation, they can hardly comprehend it. Look at what other people in your community did or ask them. As someone who left a developing country I would say get a degree any degree really and then get a job and some savings, you can then apply to a masters program abroad, a lot of countries this will be free wit…

[dead]

Re: What should third world dev do in this economy?

#29

Post by triknomeister »

antisthenes wrote: post #22
gagabity wrote: post #15

You are mostly asking the wrong people, the reality for most in here has absolutely nothing to do with your situation, they can hardly comprehend it. Look at what other people in your community did or ask them. As someone who left a developing country I would say get a degree any degree really and then get a job and some savings, you can then apply to a masters program abroad, a lot of countries this will be free wit…

This is good advice. I will echo this by saying - ask within your community, start with your parents and see if they have any advice or anyone who needs work. Maybe some trades can be done on the side? Plumbing/Electric/HVAC? These are not fancy or glorious and won't get you rich, but quality tradesman work will always be in demand.

I know the other commenter already said it but just to emphasize, if a poorly paid software engineer earns 3000 Euros/yr, then a trade person will earn around 600 Euros/year if he is lucky.
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