What Ouya Isn't • Hacker News Board

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#21

Post by jeffool » Mon, Aug 13, 2012, 2:55 AM UTC

What Ouya is, is a free emulator for older games. And an OnLive box. And an XBMC box. And by default of running Android, a Netflix box.

There are 3600 people willing to pay to reserve their usernames. Almost 60k people have bought the hope of having one. At worst, it will get a retail push and be a BlackBerry PlayBook level failure. Or it may not, and it could be a Raspberry Pi like success (in terms of buzz). Or anything in between.

What I don't get, is the immense hate it gets. I don't see anyone calling it "the future of gaming", except maybe the press people behind the product? And that's kind of their job. The derision it gets from people who seem to think they're on a Crusade to teach the unenlightened that they're being bamboozled is weird. It's a game console, primarily aimed at a tech-savvy audience that doesn't mind hacking their toys, and even soldering them. And yet I haven't heard that audience reach even the levels of annoyance of an iOS/Android argument. Much less one that needs to be told (repeatedly) that their toy WILL NOT change gaming! ... Who pigeonholed the OUYA as a flagship in the revolution anyway? Marketing? So air your screeds at marketing people. Not those who enjoy tinkering with computers.

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#22

Post by pacmon » Mon, Aug 13, 2012, 3:21 AM UTC

SCdF wrote: post #18

chucknelson wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And FPS works well on neither (go go mouse + keyboard)." Crazy sales and millions of console FPS players would disagree. I think playing an FPS on a controller is "normal" and just fine as of the current generation of consoles. Of course there will be edge cases, too (quake 3, CS, etc.).

Yeah, I considered leaving that example out ;-) So FPS games have changed dramatically to work on consoles. They are often third person, and it gives you a better sense of space on a display so far away. They have become 'slower' and the fighting has become mostly horizontal and far less vertical, because controllers just aren't as good as a mouse in terms of aiming. The games tend to have lots of 'shooting' gallery…

It's clear you haven't played FPS on console in years. Neither had I. I've always been a person who believed a PC was a must for FPS. Then my friend decided he was going to get Battlefield 3 on 360 not PC, so I did the same(with great hesitation about how I would do). It turns out - it's not so bad. I crank the rotation sensitivity way up, turn off auto-aim (frankly, it makes things worse) and I do well enough. I will, however, agree that aiming with mouse/keyboard would still be better & faster (at least for me). Battlefield is also a real FPS it's not third person like Gears of War. Luckily console and pc players don't play on the same servers, so the issue of having a leg-up on PC is moot.

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#23

Post by pinchduck » Mon, Aug 13, 2012, 3:37 AM UTC

Fine, Mr. Crankypants, don't buy one.

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#24

Post by jcromartie » Mon, Aug 13, 2012, 3:55 AM UTC

vibrunazo wrote: post #3

The key he is missing is Android. The huge big advantage of the OUYA is that it leverages the Android ecosystem. As a game developer myself, we were already developing OUYA ready games before the OUYA existed. Many (most?) games in the Play Store right now are already ready for the OUYA (gamepad support, freemium, 10 feet experience) or close to it. Which are a great good practice for developers to be following on An…

> Android is the future of gaming

This is a pretty big statement. I don't see Android gaming taking any sizable chunk out of PlayStation/Xbox/Wii, or iOS gaming for that matter. I see Android gaming doing fine on Android and among smartphones in general.

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#25

Post by jcromartie » Mon, Aug 13, 2012, 3:59 AM UTC

thechut wrote: post #4

You make it sound like developers need to develop specifically for OUYA, many Android games can be very easily ported to the OUYA platform. By using Android OUYA is also tapping the giant pool of existing Android and Java software engineering talent. They are attempting to bridge the gap between smart phone games and console games. No, its probably not the future of set top entertainment but for $99 I would take an O…

It's not just porting, but re-designing for gamepads, TV size and viewing distance, longer gaming sessions, etc.. Mobile touchscreen games are not going to translate without changes to gameplay and control schemes.

The best candidates for OUYA are games that have on-screen buttons (yuck!) and wireless gamepad support (who does that on a phone/tablet anyway?!). They will probably be easy. But who wants to play Fruit Ninja with a joystick? Or sit in front of their TV hitting only one button to play Jetpack Joyride?

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#26

Post by slantyyz » Mon, Aug 13, 2012, 4:10 AM UTC

SCdF wrote: post #13

Initially I was excited for Ouya. Not because I was ever going to own one (console/tv gaming sucks for my lifestyle) but because it would mean there would be better games on Android. Except now I'm not so sure. Making a game work on a touchscreen 30cm from your face is a completely different proposition from making a game on a controller 4m in front of your face. It's nice that the underlying OS is the same, but it's…

>> Street Fighter works on controllers, it doesn't work on touch screens.

I dunno about that. I've got SFIV Volt, SF II and King of Fighters on iOS, and they're not nearly as bad as I thought they would be. I normally use a fighting stick over a pad on consoles, but I definitely prefer the touchscreen over a game pad.

Sure you don't get the purist's 6 button controls, but then again, you don't on some of the other handheld versions either (SFA3 on Game Boy Color comes to mind).

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#27

Post by malkia » Mon, Aug 13, 2012, 4:15 AM UTC

Zuph wrote: post #20

malkia wrote: post #6

On one side I want it to succeed (the liberal hobbyist in me), on the other side I see some problems (the conservative console game developer in me) I don't see how AAA title would be delivered to this device. And without AAA titles, the device can't be primarily about games. What used to fit in CD-ROM in PSX days, then on DVD in PS2/Xbox, now it needs bigger and more storage. With the recent download limits from int…

Why is a device without AAA games necessarily a device that isn't primarily about games? I'm genuinely curious about this. From my perspective, the Ouya seems to perfectly match my gaming habits (I have not played a "AAA" title in many years), so I have to wonder what about the economics of the situation make the Ouya fundamentally untenable.

Because it would not catch mainstream people. No "cool" kid in the school would play unpopular games. And most popular games are AAA, yes there are quite a few indie gems - minecraft, angry birds, plants & zombies - but only few of them can keep them attached for many sequels.

Where Mario, Donkey Kong, Final Fantasy, Grand Theft Auto, Gran Turismo, and many others are games where kids expect them and know about them. These are AAA titles. This is what sells a console.

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#28

Post by slantyyz » Mon, Aug 13, 2012, 4:25 AM UTC

hazzen wrote: post #17

vibrunazo wrote: post #3

The key he is missing is Android. The huge big advantage of the OUYA is that it leverages the Android ecosystem. As a game developer myself, we were already developing OUYA ready games before the OUYA existed. Many (most?) games in the Play Store right now are already ready for the OUYA (gamepad support, freemium, 10 feet experience) or close to it. Which are a great good practice for developers to be following on An…

Author here. I've updated my post to include some words on the current Android games market and how none of it maps to the Ouya. Simply, a game written for a 4.5" diagonal phone screen will not scale down to the 2-3" diagonal touchpad on the controller and then back up to the 52" diagonal of a TV. You have lost too much fidelity in the process; the game will feel wrong if it even works at all. As for Android being th…

>> Why might a motley collection of devices with disparate specs upend a highly focused and adaptable juggernaut

Isn't that what gaming PCs are?

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#29

Post by angersock » Mon, Aug 13, 2012, 4:41 AM UTC

hazzen wrote: post #17

vibrunazo wrote: post #3

The key he is missing is Android. The huge big advantage of the OUYA is that it leverages the Android ecosystem. As a game developer myself, we were already developing OUYA ready games before the OUYA existed. Many (most?) games in the Play Store right now are already ready for the OUYA (gamepad support, freemium, 10 feet experience) or close to it. Which are a great good practice for developers to be following on An…

Author here. I've updated my post to include some words on the current Android games market and how none of it maps to the Ouya. Simply, a game written for a 4.5" diagonal phone screen will not scale down to the 2-3" diagonal touchpad on the controller and then back up to the 52" diagonal of a TV. You have lost too much fidelity in the process; the game will feel wrong if it even works at all. As for Android being th…

You already did a hack job comparing architectures ( kevingadd hits this point first, so I won't elaborate too much). It's unfortunate too--you probably could've made a strong case that, for example, the six hardware threads on the 360's Xenon may exceed the performance of the Cortex chipset in the Ouya.

As far as mapping issues, if you are referring to direct porting of mobile games, you may well be wrong again. If the game uses vector art, it seems reasonable that that will scale, and then all you worry about is the control scheme being tolerant enough to work. If you allow for any porting effort at all, I imagine that developers will have no trouble getting the touchpad to work well enough.

As far as your analysis about why people might not prefer this to the XBLA/XBLIG or similar venue--consider the issues involved in getting updates pushed out to Fez, and what happened there. Consider also the ease of developing with such cheap devkits (consider what it costs for developing on a PS3 or 360, in earnest!), and that Android devs can target a fixed hardware target and optimize for it. You can't put enough value on saying "Fuck it, we target 4.0 on Ouya, with this hardware, screw the rest."

The launch hardware count, additionally, may or may not be increased in supply depending on how their logistics pan out. I don't think you're even remotely fair in your criticism there.

Frankly, you seem to be full of shit. Enjoy your 15 minutes.

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#30

Post by angersock » Mon, Aug 13, 2012, 5:45 AM UTC

slantyyz wrote: post #28

hazzen wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author here. I've updated my post to include some words on the current Android games market and how none of it maps to the Ouya. Simply, a game written for a 4.5" diagonal phone screen will not scale down to the 2-3" diagonal touchpad on the controller and then back up to the 52" diagonal of a TV. You have lost too much fidelity in the process; the game will feel wrong if it even works at all. As for Android being th…

>> Why might a motley collection of devices with disparate specs upend a highly focused and adaptable juggernaut Isn't that what gaming PCs are?

Indeed, that's what ultimately dethroned Apple in the personal desktop computer business: lots of developer support/embracing and bargain-bin hardware.