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Oda Ujiharu: Why the ‘weakest Samurai warlord’ is admired

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Re: Oda Ujiharu: Why the ‘weakest Samurai warlord’ is admired

#21

Post by tbrake »

stronglikedan wrote: post #14
kybernetikos wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a dumb saying. Good times are created by weak people working together to defeat strong people. Most hard times are created by "Strong Men" fighting each other. Just take a look around the world - is it countries under the sway of warlords that have the best times? Or is it countries where the institutions are stronger than the individuals, where rulers have been limited or deposed by groups of individual…

> This is such a dumb saying. It can be aptly applied throughout history, so while maybe not the best word choice, the spirit of the message can't be dumb.

I'd say it's actually completely useless.

The definitions of "weak" and "strong" are extremely malleable depending on your own subjective assessment of the person/people.

It's an almost-aphorism; nearly useful, but not quite.

Re: Oda Ujiharu: Why the ‘weakest Samurai warlord’ is admired

#22

Post by [deleted] »

kybernetikos wrote: post #5
taneq wrote: post #3

Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times. This guy is all of those men, like 10 times over.

This is such a dumb saying. Good times are created by weak people working together to defeat strong people. Most hard times are created by "Strong Men" fighting each other. Just take a look around the world - is it countries under the sway of warlords that have the best times? Or is it countries where the institutions are stronger than the individuals, where rulers have been limited or deposed by groups of individual…

[deleted]

Re: Oda Ujiharu: Why the ‘weakest Samurai warlord’ is admired

#23

Post by kybernetikos »

tbrake wrote: post #21
stronglikedan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is such a dumb saying. It can be aptly applied throughout history, so while maybe not the best word choice, the spirit of the message can't be dumb.

I'd say it's actually completely useless. The definitions of "weak" and "strong" are extremely malleable depending on your own subjective assessment of the person/people. It's an almost-aphorism; nearly useful, but not quite.

Not only that, but "good times" and "bad times" are equally ambiguous - good times for who?

I have a feeling that the saying is used primarily by people who imagine themselves strong and think that the good times in history were when the strong were taking from the weak, whereas I think that good times in history are when the weak are protected from the worst abuses of the strong.

Re: Oda Ujiharu: Why the ‘weakest Samurai warlord’ is admired

#24

Post by [deleted] »

salomonk_mur wrote: post #16
stronglikedan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is such a dumb saying. It can be aptly applied throughout history, so while maybe not the best word choice, the spirit of the message can't be dumb.

Can it? What "bad times" were created by weak men? To me it seems most if not all bad times are just "strong men" taking advantage of that strength to take from others in one way or another and hence causing conflict or economic woes.

[deleted]

Re: Oda Ujiharu: Why the ‘weakest Samurai warlord’ is admired

#25

Post by philipallstar »

kybernetikos wrote: post #5
taneq wrote: post #3

Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times. This guy is all of those men, like 10 times over.

This is such a dumb saying. Good times are created by weak people working together to defeat strong people. Most hard times are created by "Strong Men" fighting each other. Just take a look around the world - is it countries under the sway of warlords that have the best times? Or is it countries where the institutions are stronger than the individuals, where rulers have been limited or deposed by groups of individual…

You're missing the point. The strong men are the ones building roads and sewers and buildings and exploring and policing and making safe and guarding and inventing and transporting, and the weak men are the ones deferring and allowing things to slide into safety and overly generous (with someone's money) social programs and overseas programs and politeness laws, and when things go wrong, populism, and the circle continuing.

Re: Oda Ujiharu: Why the ‘weakest Samurai warlord’ is admired

#26

Post by kop316 »

taneq wrote: post #3

Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times. This guy is all of those men, like 10 times over.

Assuming this is what you truly believe, I recommend you read: https://acoup.blog/2020/01/17/collections-the-fremen-mirage-...

Re: Oda Ujiharu: Why the ‘weakest Samurai warlord’ is admired

#27

Post by badgersnake »

stormfather wrote: post #12
kybernetikos wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a dumb saying. Good times are created by weak people working together to defeat strong people. Most hard times are created by "Strong Men" fighting each other. Just take a look around the world - is it countries under the sway of warlords that have the best times? Or is it countries where the institutions are stronger than the individuals, where rulers have been limited or deposed by groups of individual…

I don't see how anyone can look at the generation that survived the great depression, and look at boomers/millenials/gen Z and not see the truth of it

I don’t see how anyone can look at the numbers 1 and 2 not see that x + y = 3 is always true.

Re: Oda Ujiharu: Why the ‘weakest Samurai warlord’ is admired

#28

Post by [deleted] »

ozgune wrote: post #4

> However, a wise man once said: “[It] ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward; how much you can take and keep moving forward.” Ujiharu may have lost Oda Castle nine times, but that means he also won it back eight times, almost always with smaller armies. His refusal to accept defeat and his iron will to get up and keep fighting is why many historians reject the “weak…

[deleted]

Re: Oda Ujiharu: Why the ‘weakest Samurai warlord’ is admired

#29

Post by [deleted] »

kybernetikos wrote: post #5
taneq wrote: post #3

Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times. This guy is all of those men, like 10 times over.

This is such a dumb saying. Good times are created by weak people working together to defeat strong people. Most hard times are created by "Strong Men" fighting each other. Just take a look around the world - is it countries under the sway of warlords that have the best times? Or is it countries where the institutions are stronger than the individuals, where rulers have been limited or deposed by groups of individual…

[deleted]

Re: Oda Ujiharu: Why the ‘weakest Samurai warlord’ is admired

#30

Post by [deleted] »

stronglikedan wrote: post #14
kybernetikos wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a dumb saying. Good times are created by weak people working together to defeat strong people. Most hard times are created by "Strong Men" fighting each other. Just take a look around the world - is it countries under the sway of warlords that have the best times? Or is it countries where the institutions are stronger than the individuals, where rulers have been limited or deposed by groups of individual…

> This is such a dumb saying. It can be aptly applied throughout history, so while maybe not the best word choice, the spirit of the message can't be dumb.

[deleted]
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