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Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

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Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#21

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

lightedman wrote: post #16
redox99 wrote: post #9

This article does not adjust for the fact that Teslas drive many more miles on Autopilot + FSD than any other brand. So it's a pretty worthless comparison.

"It’s not just that self-driving cars in general are dangerous for motorcycles, either: this problem is unique to Tesla. Not a single other automobile manufacturer or ADAS self-driving technology provider reported a single motorcycle fatality in the same time frame." Doesn't matter when mileage isn't what's being compared - it's whether or not others have caused the same problem - PERIOD.

> Doesn't matter when mileage isn't what's being compared

Maybe the mileage on other brands is lower, because Tesla is unique in hyping as "full self-driving" a product that's not ready? It would still be a problem unique to Tesla then.

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#22

Post by xbmcuser »

The point I soured on Musk was when he ditched radar/lidar and tried to go with camera's alone. This made me realize he is not the genius he is made out to be but instead he is a fraud/charlatan and over the years his statements on different topics have only hardened that belief. Why the fuck would you want ai cars to be the same as humans you should want them to be many times better and radarr/lidar sonarr type tech make them better

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#23

Post by dagw »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #5

I’m normally quite skeptical of these kinds of “Tesla More Dangerous Than Other Brands” headlines since they tend to be B.S. But this seems like a pretty legitimate accusation, and certainly a well researched write-up at the very least.

Without knowing how many FSD miles Teslas have done compared to other brands, it's hard to judge. It could just be that Tesla owners are far more likely to trust and use their cars FSD capabilities, and thus end up in more FSD accidents. Other brands might have so bad FSD that people simply not trust it and basically never use it, and thus never get into an FSD accident.

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#24

Post by redox99 »

only-one1701 wrote: post #18
redox99 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering how much FSD has improved in the last few months, a 2 year old video is not relevant.

Not relevant to what? Those people are still dead.

The shortcomings of 2 year old software is not relevant, because that's not what the cars run now.

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#25

Post by ReptileMan »

Mistletoe wrote: post #4

Visual detection only doesn’t work and the man that forced Tesla to use it is now in control of government “efficiency”. This decade’s very dark humor just keeps getting worse.

We have more than 100 years of proof that visual detection works quite well.

The problem is that we don't have certification process before a tech is deployed on the streets - your AV must pass this and this tests before you are allowed to use it. We don't care how you got there lidar, gps/astrology, camera/ai are all ok as long as you pass

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#26

Post by siilats »

lightedman wrote: post #16
redox99 wrote: post #9

This article does not adjust for the fact that Teslas drive many more miles on Autopilot + FSD than any other brand. So it's a pretty worthless comparison.

"It’s not just that self-driving cars in general are dangerous for motorcycles, either: this problem is unique to Tesla. Not a single other automobile manufacturer or ADAS self-driving technology provider reported a single motorcycle fatality in the same time frame." Doesn't matter when mileage isn't what's being compared - it's whether or not others have caused the same problem - PERIOD.

so if the other cars have 5x less miles on autopilot compared to tesla you expect to see 0 crashes even though the probability of a crash is the same

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#27

Post by dingnuts »

usrusr wrote: post #10

[flagged]

"crippleds"?

Jesus Christ I know the zeitgeist is a cultural backlash against political correctness but goddamn we're getting a little cavalier using 1930s-esque language about non minority groups here aren't we?

You couldn't have said serious injuries vs deaths? Or deaths vs maimings?

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#28

Post by janice1999 »

only-one1701 wrote: post #18
redox99 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering how much FSD has improved in the last few months, a 2 year old video is not relevant.

Not relevant to what? Those people are still dead.

Other peoples lives are a sacrifice some drivers alpha testing their cars firmware are willing to make.

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#29

Post by AnotherGoodName »

xyst wrote: post #11

It’s already anxious enough sharing the road with American drivers as a bicyclist. Now I have to worry about awful TSLA tech just not working or detecting me. Maybe wouldn’t be an issue if bike infrastructure was separate from car traffic. Or USA had even a fraction of the foresight as the NL when it came to transportation infrastructure.

On the bright side the Cruise, Waymo and Zoox's are the greatest thing ever as a cyclist.

They do not accelerate to turn in front of me but instead slow down and pull in behind with patience for their turn off. I have a few areas i need to take up a whole lane for a short time (no bike line) and they don't get angry and honk. In general i feel safe if they are around vs an unpredictable human driver.

I think self-driving cars are going to save a lot of lives. Not Tesla's tech of course, they're too far behind, but the actual on the road right now self-driving cars are fantastic.

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#30

Post by energy123 »

xbmcuser wrote: post #22

The point I soured on Musk was when he ditched radar/lidar and tried to go with camera's alone. This made me realize he is not the genius he is made out to be but instead he is a fraud/charlatan and over the years his statements on different topics have only hardened that belief. Why the fuck would you want ai cars to be the same as humans you should want them to be many times better and radarr/lidar sonarr type tech…

Multiple independent sensor streams is like having multiple pilots fly a plane instead of just one pilot. The chance of a fatal error (false negative identification of an object near the car) decreases from p to p^n. The size of that decrease is not intuitive: if p=0.0001 it now becomes a much smaller number with the introduction of a second pilot or second independent sensor stream (0.0001^2).

Now the errors are not all independent so it's not as good as that, but many classes of errors are independent (e.g. two pilots getting a heart attack versus just one) so you can get pretty close to that p^n. Musk did not understand this. He's just not as smart as he's made out to be.

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