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The Candid Naivety of Geeks

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Re: The Candid Naivety of Geeks

#21
post #13

Google has been around since 1998 with people putting every dark secret and worry into search queries. Not once has someones searches been leaked by employees, despite highly political people working at these companies with a lot to gain by leaking to a journalist or similar. Likewise with private messages on Facebook, order history on Amazon. Big Tech has way more to lose than the small "privacy focused" alternative…

Upvote. Employees are the actual enforcement of tech ethics. See Google project maven pushback

Re: The Candid Naivety of Geeks

#22
As a tech employee who has worked on software privacy controls for consumer devices at amazon I have a couple thoughts. First, let me clarify that I am still highly skeptical about any tech companies privacy promises. That being said, the privacy control I worked on for one of Amazon's devices was a pita. It was a hardware switch which completely powered down all sensors, and modifying code related to it required extensive testing to preserve customer privacy. Amazon at least emphasizes to employees earning and retaining customer trust. The real reason I actually semi trust tech companies privacy policies is the ethics of individual employees. Maybe I'm projecting my disgust at privacy infringements onto my coworkers, but I generally believe these large corps can't hire sufficient teams of devs to build privacy compromising systems without at least one person whistleblowing.

My $.02

Re: The Candid Naivety of Geeks

#23
> The quokka, like the rationalist, is a creature marked by profound innocence. The quokka can't imagine you might eat it, and the rationalist can't imagine you might deceive him. As long they stay on their islands, they survive, but both species have problems if a human shows up

> In theory, rationalists like game theory, in practice, they need to adjust their priors. Real-life exchanges can be modeled as a prisoner's dilemma. In the classic version, the prisoners can't communicate, so they have to guess whether the other player will defect or cooperate.

> The game changes when we realize that life is not a single dilemma, but a series of them, and that we can remember the behavior of other agents. Now we need to cooperate, and the best strategy is "tit for two tats", wherein we cooperate until our opponent defects twice

> The problem is, this is where rationalists hit a mental stop sign. Because in the real world, there is one more strategy that the game doesn't model: lying. See, the real best strategy is "be good at lying so that you always convince your opponent to cooperate, then defect"

> And rationalists, bless their hearts, are REALLY easy to lie to. It's not like taking candy from a baby; babies actually try to hang onto their candy. The rationalists just limply let go and mutter, "I notice I am confused". This is also why they are poly.

Re: The Candid Naivety of Geeks

#24
post #14
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

copyleft is less free than permissive. noone should be compelled to share their work if they don't want to.

the "freedom" being limited in this case is the freedom to privatize otherwise public work

privatise your additional work on top of the public work. the public work doesn't stop being public.

Re: The Candid Naivety of Geeks

#25
The Candid Naivety of Geeks

> Did you really think that "marketing" is telling the truth? Are you a freshly debarked Thermian? (In case you missed it, this is a Galaxy Quest reference.)

Did you really think that an article humiliating your readers is going to change anything?

Yes, we the people, are stupid. No, we the people, are not keen on being called stupid. We might accept that from people we admire but not from someone we have to look up on the interwebz. Someone who has to point out that there is a page on him - in, for god's sake, the FRENCH wikipedia! And yes, I missed it, because Galaxy Quest is nice popcorn TV but nothing I would commit to long-term memory.

No matter how justified the cause, badly voiced anger just sounds like something between bad impulse control and idiocy.

I get the points the author is trying to make, I sympathize with them, but I would never send that text to anyone I try to convince.

Re: The Candid Naivety of Geeks

#26
Ok this is a little frustrating for me. Not because there aren't bad actors (there are, and LOTS of them, basically anything ad-supported.)

But we're in a capitalist system, right? We want companies to compete on features that have value to users. And privacy is definitely a thing of value.

And god help me, I never wanted to be an Apple apologist, they're a giant capitalist organization. But they're also the ONLY one that is attempting to compete on the basis of privacy.

And so they have e2e encryption on iMessages, most of iCloud, are the only people doing meaningful things with homomorphic encryption and AI, etc. They recently, very publicly, turned off these features in the UK due to recent legislation.

But if I look at what they're doing, and the audits they're admitting, and the political hits they're taking, and if I dismiss all that I'm supposed to be "candidly naive"?

Do you want us to choose our platforms on the basis of privacy, or not?

And I'm not just "trusting" Apple, I'm looking at their financial incentives. Which are focused around selling extremely overpriced, decent quality hardware. Not ad targeting. For me to believe that Apple is wantonly and deliberately harvesting my data would require that I believe they have an entire secondary advertising business that has remained completely under the radar.

Again, fuck you for making me defend Apple. They have so many issues. But also if we just go pure nihilist and don't even allow companies to compete on the basis of proper security, what's left, unless we go offline entirely?

Re: The Candid Naivety of Geeks

#27
post #13

Google has been around since 1998 with people putting every dark secret and worry into search queries. Not once has someones searches been leaked by employees, despite highly political people working at these companies with a lot to gain by leaking to a journalist or similar. Likewise with private messages on Facebook, order history on Amazon. Big Tech has way more to lose than the small "privacy focused" alternative…

Upvote. Employees are the actual enforcement of tech ethics. See Google project maven pushback

It's a moral race to the bottom when the salary's good and competition is fierce. It's great that Google pushed back against Project Maven, but nothing stopped the other 21+ companies from participating.

Re: The Candid Naivety of Geeks

#28
post #25

The Candid Naivety of Geeks > Did you really think that "marketing" is telling the truth? Are you a freshly debarked Thermian? (In case you missed it, this is a Galaxy Quest reference.) Did you really think that an article humiliating your readers is going to change anything? Yes, we the people, are stupid. No, we the people, are not keen on being called stupid. We might accept that from people we admire but not from…

100% agreed. This is just someone self-reporting on their own recently discovered naivete, but projecting it into others.

Re: The Candid Naivety of Geeks

#29
My jump to conclusions mat says "The author doesn't understand tech!"

I worked on on-device speech at Google, both frontend and backend. Unless there was a secret cabal mirror team that did all the evil stuff and made us think we were writing the code that was shipping, it doesn't come close to describing how things actually were worked through internally.

Most trivially, and narrowly, Most Evil Amazon would be just as happy with a transcript of what you said that was recognized locally. There's 0 reason they need the audio. I'd also hazard a guess they're not streaming audio to the server, no one would create a hotword detector that would rely on that, due to the latency and bandwidth demand alone.

Re: The Candid Naivety of Geeks

#30

Guy on a good soapbox, but heavy on assertions and high emotion. Those damn trade-offs!

Except the trade offs only go one way. Its a rachet. You never get more free, open systems. Over time your life and the life of your children only gets more bound. It's frog boiling.

You're displaying the exact naivety he's trying to point out.

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