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Want to be more secure? Build two-factor authentication into your webapp

blog.alainmeier.com

21–30 of 41 posts

Re: Want to be more secure? Build two-factor authentication into your webapp

#21
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this typically the case anyways? A hacker with access to your email account can just use the password reset mechanism to get a sign-in link to your other web sites.

Yes! It is the typical situation. That's why 2fac auth comes in.

"Have email, lost phone- help me" -Mallory

Re: Want to be more secure? Build two-factor authentication into your webapp

#22
post #14

of course the issue with 2 factors is that: - you can still social engineer your way out (!) - "oh i lost my phone and the recovery keys" "heres my name address cc number, etc please help!" (ie nothing has been solved) - its quite annoying to use - it doesnt solve everything, only weak passwords/brute force - it locks you out if you lose your phone/token until you get back home to get your recovery keys - compromisin…

How does compromising the phone compromise the password? I turned on 2 factor auth and the only thing that would be compromised is the code generated by the 2 factor auth. My password is still secure in my head.

My password doesn't get used for anything, all my applications have a 1 app only password.

An attacker would still need my password...

Re: Want to be more secure? Build two-factor authentication into your webapp

#23
One thing I wish that Google would allow is for me to select what service my 1 app password can be used with. For example, I can create a new password that only allows access to IMAP and SMTP for example, but won't allow the attacker to log in to Google Talk...

Re: Want to be more secure? Build two-factor authentication into your webapp

#25
If only they had built it with two thousand and one factors of authentication!

Joking aside, once you start down the road to two-factor authentication, you might as well go to three factors if you are truly concerned about security. Moreover, at least one of those factors would need to be based on physical properties, i.e., biometrics, or some other intrinsically unique property that can't be forgotten or copied.

Re: Want to be more secure? Build two-factor authentication into your webapp

#26
post #14

of course the issue with 2 factors is that: - you can still social engineer your way out (!) - "oh i lost my phone and the recovery keys" "heres my name address cc number, etc please help!" (ie nothing has been solved) - its quite annoying to use - it doesnt solve everything, only weak passwords/brute force - it locks you out if you lose your phone/token until you get back home to get your recovery keys - compromisin…

Of course it doesn't solve everything, but it raises the bar. Social engineering is an active attack that doesn't scale like phishing; the support folks at the organization will catch on a whole lot quicker than their users.

Re: Want to be more secure? Build two-factor authentication into your webapp

#27
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah, that'll be way more convenient. Right up until you need to login when your phone is out of batteries, not in wireless coverage, under water, etc.

"I wish I could log in and check my account balance. If only I hadn't burned one finger, and got a cut on the other!"

I had this problem when I was applying for US citizenship. I was on the crew team in college, which means I had callouses all the time on my fingers, and thus blank fingerpads.

I applied for citizenship 3 times over a period of 3 years, and each time got rejected due to poor quality of fingerprints.

Finally I stopped rowing and then got my citizenship. I'm sure there's some way around it, but it was kind of amusing and frustrating at the time.

Re: Want to be more secure? Build two-factor authentication into your webapp

#28

We hope to launch a service precisely to help with this (toofactor.com). It's great to see this additional attention and options in the space. Google Authenticator is a great service imho, but I find myself moreso pleased with the 'application specific' password feature which allows me to abstract my exposure even further.

Unfortunately those application-specific passwords aren't particularly application specific, at least in Google's implementation -- any of them can be used for anything.

If someone built a system which could restrict passwords or keys by some kind of capabilities (e.g. my Adium gtalk password could only be used to authenticate to Google's Jabber servers), that would be useful. It would be complex to manage, especially as your applications change over time, but not impossible.

Re: Want to be more secure? Build two-factor authentication into your webapp

#29
post #25

If only they had built it with two thousand and one factors of authentication! Joking aside, once you start down the road to two-factor authentication, you might as well go to three factors if you are truly concerned about security. Moreover, at least one of those factors would need to be based on physical properties, i.e., biometrics, or some other intrinsically unique property that can't be forgotten or copied.

It's only n-factor if you have n orthogonal keys. Typically "something you know", "something you have", and "something you are". In the same sense that two passwords isn't "2-factor", I wouldn't say that a finger print + DNA sample is "2-factor". The problem with "something you are" as a third factor is that it typically requires you to have some hardware to get that information, in which case it's just 2-factor again. And if we get the technology to read out brain dumps, knowing a password is just a part of something you are and we're back to 1-factor... Which suggests it's not the number of factors that are important, but the total number of bits of information involved and how hard it is for theoretical attackers to gather all those bits. Is your scheme torture-proof? I doubt anyone would prefer torture over handing over their phone+password to their gmail account. But most attackers aren't going to come torture you. A phone or a yubikey or what have you is immune to OS keyloggers which defeat passwords of any complexity, that alone makes them useful against a big class of attackers. What class of attackers does e.g. a thumbprint further defeat? It sounds like it's more useful as a reset verification than anything else--you can forget your password and lose your phone but you don't lose your thumb--usually. (We can also get the 'mark of the beast' and have chips implanted in our hands.)

Re: Want to be more secure? Build two-factor authentication into your webapp

#30
post #14

of course the issue with 2 factors is that: - you can still social engineer your way out (!) - "oh i lost my phone and the recovery keys" "heres my name address cc number, etc please help!" (ie nothing has been solved) - its quite annoying to use - it doesnt solve everything, only weak passwords/brute force - it locks you out if you lose your phone/token until you get back home to get your recovery keys - compromisin…

> compromising the phone (2nd factor for the general public) allow compromising both passwords and the authenticator

Unless I've misunderstood how 2-factor authentication works, this is misinformation. The entire point of 2-factor authentication is that you need _both_ factors; i.e., having only one does not compromise the system.

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