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Job market for a 30+ person learning to code?

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Re: Job market for a 30+ person learning to code?

#21

Post by T-hawk »

callmeed wrote: post #7

This is an interesting question and one I've thought about a lot too. I'm 37 and an experienced developer/entrepreneur. I've been self-employed for 12+ years but if I ever had to "get a real job", it's something to think about. First off, remember that it's not legal for a US employer to ask your age. They can only ask if you're over 18. Of course, if you want to be sly about it, you'll need to craft your resume care…

> First off, remember that it's not legal for a US employer to ask your age.

Just to clarify on the legal distinction: They can ask, and you can answer or not. What's illegal is making an employment decision based on age. Of course, the most foolproof way to prove to a belligerent labor attorney that age did not drive an employment decision is to never possess the age information in the first place. So nobody asks, and any company big enough to have an HR department internally forbids it from asking about age or any other protected factor like national origin and religion. But it's not illegal simply to ask.

Also, the Age Discrimination in Employment Act only protects workers over 40. 37 is actually fair game for discrimination.

Citation for both of the above: http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/age.html

Re: Job market for a 30+ person learning to code?

#22

Post by ShabbyDoo »

Consider getting a low-level job in a shop which is doing Java/Android work (presuming this is your interest). You might at first do 2nd-level customer support, testing, or other non-programming things. However, especially if you position yourself to employers as someone taking on such a role so you can learn on-the-job, you'll be able to finagle your way into more challenging work. Maybe there's some manual testing which can be automated. Now, you've shown you can write code. Before long, you'll find yourself in a development role, and you'll have been paid while learning. By letting potential employers know of your intentions, you can induce selection bias in your favor -- the employers who want testers who will shut-up and do as told will throw your resume away, but those who want motivated people who can take on greater responsibilities will love your goals.

Re: Job market for a 30+ person learning to code?

#23

Post by spaghetti »

First of all my advice is go for it. Don't let pre-conceptions about age hold you back. In my last job the older engineers were far more talented and productive than the younger fresh-out-of-college or college drop-outs.

Another thought: younger engineers are sometimes preferred simply because they're teeming with naive energy. When I think of hiring someone who I know will spend majority of their time grinding down a mountain of technical debt who do I look for? A naive 20-something college drop-out who will work themselves to the bone for 80k, beer and foosball? Or a 40 year old pro who's been through a successful acquisition, has enough money to not have to work and will figure out in about 2 days how lame the founders are for letting the technical debt grow into such a monstrosity?

Re: Job market for a 30+ person learning to code?

#24

Post by nanijoe »

Presumably, you have been doing something with your life these last 39 years. I would venture to say your best bet is to take the experience you have in what ever field you were previously in, combine it with your new found programming knowledge and build something.

Re: Job market for a 30+ person learning to code?

#25

Post by hypnocode »

djtriptych wrote: post #16

tl;dr - Ship something, THEN look for a job. In the real world, your age is a handicap, no matter what people say. Look for differentiators. A great one is the ability to point to something reasonably complicated that you built from scratch and shipped. Very few programmers can do that, and the ones that can are a class above in the eyes of many employers. One thing you have going for you is actual life experience th…

Great points! It comes down to how deep you want to go, too. Programmers are still finding jobs, and it seems like our market is better than most hiring markets, at least in the United States. So if you just want a job programming: they're out there.

If you want to be a real hacker, though, (Why else would you be here?) you need to be a little crazy, and obsess over the deep details of your specialty.

Re: Job market for a 30+ person learning to code?

#27

Post by borlak »

build something you can show off, then apply for jobs.

a lot of employers are going to also ask: what do you do to keep up with the changes in technology?

also, learn SQL. it's easy, and necessary. pick a database, install it, become somewhat familiar with it.

Re: Job market for a 30+ person learning to code?

#28

Post by khill »

tinco wrote: post #6

I don't think you could ever be too old to work as a programmer. When people say they would rather hire junior programmers it is because of their drive to learn new stuff and their use of the most modern techniques, not their age. Java is a great basis to work off, and I bet you'll get a fine job with it, but also consider learning a more dynamic language like Python, perhaps learn it at codecadamy. I don't personall…

I think people want to hire young ("junior") programmers because:

1. They are cheaper

2. They are more likely to have less focus on work-life balance (i.e., willing to work crazy hours)

3. They can be more easily molded to a company's development philosophies or culture

Re: Job market for a 30+ person learning to code?

#29

Post by degroat »

As someone with experience hiring developers, my concerns about "older developers" were two-fold.

First, the cultural fit. If the company is all mid 20-somethings, would you fit in with the team. ?

Secondly, are you really set in your wise regarding your code and almost as important, what SDLC you're comfortable with (because we aren't using waterfall here!)

So I wouldn't ever not hire someone just for being old, but those are two concerns that I'd have with any candidate and they're a little more of an issue with older developers.

That said, regardless of your age, what is going to get your a job is networking. Start getting involved in the community now. Take on freelancing projects. Attend meetups. Get to know people.

Re: Job market for a 30+ person learning to code?

#30

Post by RandallBrown »

There's an intern on my team that is going back to school for a second degree in CS. He's 32 and will likely have a full time offer locked up by the end of the summer.

Most of my team is in their 40s and I don't think they would have any trouble hiring an older person as long as they had talent. Honestly, you might be a better hire because you're less likely to leave the company in a couple years than a 21 year old that's still trying to figure out what to do with their life.

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