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I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

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Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#21
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that given the current valuations, being good at a bunch of narrow use cases is just not good enough. It needs to be able to replace humans in every role where the primary output is text or speech to meet expectations.

I don't think that "replacing humans in every role" is the line for "being bullish on AI models". I think they could stop development exactly where they are, and they would still make pretty dramatic improvements to productivity in a lot of places. For me at least, their value already exceeds the $20/month I'm paying, and I'm pretty sure that way more than covers inference costs.

> I think they could stop development exactly where they are, and they would still make pretty dramatic improvements to productivity in a lot of places.

Yup. Not to mention, we don't even have time to figure out how to effectively work with one generation of models, before the next generation of models get released and rises the bar. If development stopped right now, I'd still expect LLMs to get better for years, as people slowly figure out how to use them well.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#22

My experience (almost exclusively Claude), has just been so different that I don't know what to say. Some of the examples are the kinds of things I explicitly wouldn't expect LLMs to be particularly good at so I wouldn't use them for, and others, she says that it just doesn't work for her, and that experience is just so different than mine that I don't know how to respond. I think that there are two kinds of people w…

every time someone brings up "Code that doesn't need to deal with edge cases" I like to point at that such code is not likely to be used for anything that matters

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#23
post #7

People who don't work in tech have no idea how hard it is to do certain things at scale. Skilled tech people are severely underappreciated. From a sub-tweet: >> no LLM should ever output a url that gives a 404 error. How hard can it be? As a developer, I'm just imagining a server having to call up all the URLs to check that they still exist (and the extra costs/latency incurred there)... And if any URLs are missing,…

"How hard can it be?"

If I recall correctly, that is one of Dilbert's management axioms: if I don't understand it it cannot be difficult

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#24
post #3

You're using them wrong. Everyone is though I can't fault you specifically. Chatbot is like the worst possible application of these technologies. Of late, deaf tech forums are taken over by language model debates over which works best for speech transcription. (Multimodal language models are the the state of the art in machine transcription. Everyone seems to forget that when complaining they can't cite sources for s…

If the goal is to layoff all the customer support and trap the customer in a tarpit with no exit, LLMs are likely the best choice.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#25

My experience (almost exclusively Claude), has just been so different that I don't know what to say. Some of the examples are the kinds of things I explicitly wouldn't expect LLMs to be particularly good at so I wouldn't use them for, and others, she says that it just doesn't work for her, and that experience is just so different than mine that I don't know how to respond. I think that there are two kinds of people w…

every time someone brings up "Code that doesn't need to deal with edge cases" I like to point at that such code is not likely to be used for anything that matters

Is such code hard to write in the first place?

Automating the easy 80% sounds useful, but in practice I'm not convinced that's all that helpful. Reading and putting together code you didn't write is hard enough to begin with.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#26
I’ve used Claude today to:

Write code to pull down a significant amount of public data using an open API. (That took about 30 seconds - I just gave it the swagger file and said “here’s what I want”)

Get the data (an hour or so), clean the data (barely any time, gave it some samples, it wrote the code), used the cleaned data to query another API, combined the data sources, pulled down a bunch of PDFs relating to the data, had the AI write code to use tesseract to extract data from the PDFs, and used that to build a dashboard. That’s a mini product for my users.

I also had a play with Mistral’s OCR and have tested a few things using that against the data. When I was out walking my dogs I thought about that more, and have come up with a nice workflow for a problem I had, which I’ll test in more detail next week.

That was all whole doing an entirely different series of tasks, on calls, in meetings. I literally checked the progress a few times and wrote a new prompt or copy/pasted some stuff in from dev tools.

For the calls I was on, I took the recording of those calls, passed them into my local instance whisper, fed the transcript into Claude with a prompt I use to extract action points, pasted those into a google doc, circulated them.

One of the calls was an interview with an expert. The transcript + another prompt has given me the basis for an article (bulleted narrative + key quotes) - I will refine that tomorrow, and write the article, using a detailed prompt based on my own writing style and tone.

I needed to gather data for a project I’m involved in, so had Claude write a handful of scrapers for me (HTML source > here is what I need).

I downloaded two podcasts I need to listen to - but only need to listen to five minutes of each - and fed them into whisper then found the exact bits I needed and read the extracts rather than listening to tedious podcast waffle.

I turned an article I’d written into an audio file using elevenlabs, as a test for something a client asked me about earlier this week.

I achieved about three times as much today as I would have done a year ago. And finished work at 3pm.

So yeah, I don’t understand why people are so bullish about LLMs. Who knows?

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#27

My experience (almost exclusively Claude), has just been so different that I don't know what to say. Some of the examples are the kinds of things I explicitly wouldn't expect LLMs to be particularly good at so I wouldn't use them for, and others, she says that it just doesn't work for her, and that experience is just so different than mine that I don't know how to respond. I think that there are two kinds of people w…

every time someone brings up "Code that doesn't need to deal with edge cases" I like to point at that such code is not likely to be used for anything that matters

Oh, but it is. I can have code that does something nice to have, needs not to be 100% correct etc. For example, I want a background for my playful webpage. Maybe a WebGL shader. It might not be exactly what I asked for, but I can have it in few minutes up and running. Or some non-critical internal tools - like scraper for lunch menus from restaurants around office. Or simple parking spot sharing app. Or any kind of prototypes which in some companies are being created all the time. There are so many use cases that are forgiving regarding correctness and are much more sensitive to development effort.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#28
Why do people who don't like using LLMs keep insisting they are useless for the rest of us? If you don't like to use them, then simply don't use them.

I use them almost daily in my job and get tremendous use out of them. I guess you could accuse me of lying, but what do I stand to gain from that?

I've also seem people claim that only people who don't know how to code or people doing super simple done a million times apps can get value out of LLMs. I don't believe that applies to my situation, but even if it did, so what? I do real work for a real company delivering real value, and the LLM delivers value to me. It's really as simple as that.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#29
I am neither bullish or bearish. LLM is a tool.

It's a hammer -- sometimes it works well. It summarizes the user reviews on a site... cool, not perfect, but useful.

And like every tool, it is useless for 90% of life's situations.

And I know when it's useful because I've already tried a hammer on 1000 things and have figured out what I should be using a hammer on.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#30

My experience (almost exclusively Claude), has just been so different that I don't know what to say. Some of the examples are the kinds of things I explicitly wouldn't expect LLMs to be particularly good at so I wouldn't use them for, and others, she says that it just doesn't work for her, and that experience is just so different than mine that I don't know how to respond. I think that there are two kinds of people w…

> Look for the ways that AI works, and it can be a powerful tool. Try and figure out where it still fails, and you will see nothing but hype and hot air. Not every use case is like this, but there are many. The problem is that I feel I am constantly being bombarded by people bullish on AI saying "look how great this is" but when I try to do the exact same things they are doing, it doesn't work very well for me Of cou…

I literally had a developer of an open source package I’m working with tell me “yeah that’s a known problem, I gave up on trying to fix it. You should just ask ChatGPT to fix it, I bet it will immediately know the answer.”

Annoying response of course. But I’d never used an LLM to debug before, so I figured I’d give it a try.

First: it regurgitated a bunch of documentation and basic debugging tips, which might have actually been helpful if I had just encountered this problem and had put no thought into debugging it yet. In reality, I had already spent hours on the problem. So not helpful

Second: I provided some further info on environment variables I thought might be the problem. It latched on to that. “Yes that’s your problem! These environment variables are (causing the problem) because (reasons that don’t make sense). Delete them and that should fix things.” I deleted them. It changed nothing.

Third: It hallucinated a magic numpy function that would solve my problem. I informed it this function did not exist, and it wrote me a flowery apology.

Clearly AI coding works great for some people, but this was purely an infuriating distraction. Not only did it not solve my problem, it wasted my time and energy, and threw tons of useless and irrelevant information at me. Bad experience.

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