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Firefox Is Finally (Re)Adding Support for Web Apps

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Re: Firefox Is Finally (Re)Adding Support for Web Apps

#21

Post by e3bc54b2 »

ctoth wrote: post #8

> Similarly, Rubino says web apps in Firefox will not use a minimal browser frame and will continue to show a main toolbar with address bar, extensions, bookmarks... Why is this so hard to understand? Why are they so against just making it work like it's supposed to? PWAs are actively useful and great and this is just frustrating.

My take is they just want the 'browser' to be visible, kinda like how banks insist on their logos being visible on co-branded credit cards. Considering Firefox is nearly entirely how Mozilla makes money, and that browser has been disappearing more and more starting with Chrome's launch way back in 2008, this just feels like pearl clutching.

Re: Firefox Is Finally (Re)Adding Support for Web Apps

#22

Post by raytopia »

sho_hn wrote: post #14
bergheim wrote: post #9

Every time Mozilla is on here people go crazy. And they wrote their comment using Chrome or some skin. Which they have used for a decade. Because the button on the left seemed off on Firefox compared to Chrome (always something). So fuck Firefox. On hacker news. Crazy.

> On hacker news. You have the wrong expectations toward HN :) It's a lot less frustrating if you correct them. It's the community forum for a US-based, web-heavy startup accelerator, not a "hacker's corner" in terms of the original scene. The priorities and values and interests do differ.

Are there any forums more focused on being a "hacker's corner"?

Re: Firefox Is Finally (Re)Adding Support for Web Apps

#23

Post by dylan604 »

e3bc54b2 wrote: post #21
ctoth wrote: post #8

> Similarly, Rubino says web apps in Firefox will not use a minimal browser frame and will continue to show a main toolbar with address bar, extensions, bookmarks... Why is this so hard to understand? Why are they so against just making it work like it's supposed to? PWAs are actively useful and great and this is just frustrating.

My take is they just want the 'browser' to be visible, kinda like how banks insist on their logos being visible on co-branded credit cards. Considering Firefox is nearly entirely how Mozilla makes money, and that browser has been disappearing more and more starting with Chrome's launch way back in 2008, this just feels like pearl clutching.

> Considering Firefox is nearly entirely how Mozilla makes money,

Is it? I thought they made money by taking it from theGoogs to be the "default" search when theGoogs probably thinks of it as ensuring there is "competition" so they are not tagged as monopoly. Same as the payment they make to Apple

Re: Firefox Is Finally (Re)Adding Support for Web Apps

#24

Post by its-summertime »

wtallis wrote: post #13
ctoth wrote: post #8

> Similarly, Rubino says web apps in Firefox will not use a minimal browser frame and will continue to show a main toolbar with address bar, extensions, bookmarks... Why is this so hard to understand? Why are they so against just making it work like it's supposed to? PWAs are actively useful and great and this is just frustrating.

PWAs that prevent you from getting at your browser extensions are an inherently user-hostile idea.

Which is an issue I haven't had with Chrome or Gnome Web ('s version of extensions), even with things like VSCode which overrides the title bar as well

Re: Firefox Is Finally (Re)Adding Support for Web Apps

#25

Post by Vinnl »

ctoth wrote: post #8

> Similarly, Rubino says web apps in Firefox will not use a minimal browser frame and will continue to show a main toolbar with address bar, extensions, bookmarks... Why is this so hard to understand? Why are they so against just making it work like it's supposed to? PWAs are actively useful and great and this is just frustrating.

As I understand it, two problems are:

1) There's no clear definition of what it's "supposed" to. Not everyone who uses the term PWA wants the same things.

2. Some things are just a lot harder to implement than others.

Re: Firefox Is Finally (Re)Adding Support for Web Apps

#26

Post by dylan604 »

raytopia wrote: post #22
sho_hn wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On hacker news. You have the wrong expectations toward HN :) It's a lot less frustrating if you correct them. It's the community forum for a US-based, web-heavy startup accelerator, not a "hacker's corner" in terms of the original scene. The priorities and values and interests do differ.

Are there any forums more focused on being a "hacker's corner"?

alt.hackers or something like that maybe? IYKYK

Re: Firefox Is Finally (Re)Adding Support for Web Apps

#27

Post by Vinnl »

echoangle wrote: post #15
wtallis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PWAs that prevent you from getting at your browser extensions are an inherently user-hostile idea.

Isn’t there a middle where you don’t show the whole browser chrome by default and still allow access to the extensions? Maybe add a tiny button to show the browser UI or add a shortcut?

From the Connect post I gather that a middle ground is basically the plan - you'll still have e.g. your extensions accessible, but there won't be a tab bar.

Re: Firefox Is Finally (Re)Adding Support for Web Apps

#28

Post by makeitdouble »

nashashmi wrote: post #10
ctoth wrote: post #8

> Similarly, Rubino says web apps in Firefox will not use a minimal browser frame and will continue to show a main toolbar with address bar, extensions, bookmarks... Why is this so hard to understand? Why are they so against just making it work like it's supposed to? PWAs are actively useful and great and this is just frustrating.

It is frustrating to not know what url I have open. Some apps add info based on account .

There is clearly a use case for keeping the whole UI. But it is the major use case and should the whole product philosophy be based on it ?

I feel there will be more sites where the URL won't matter or where the user will prefer simplicity to control.

I use Google Maps 99.99% in PWA mode and never mourned the lack of the URl bar, especially as I can open the site in normal browser mode anytime I ever want the full controls.

Re: Firefox Is Finally (Re)Adding Support for Web Apps

#29

Post by Vinnl »

linsomniac wrote: post #11
mentalgear wrote: post #3

Finally, I had installed Brave just for the web-app support.

Yesterday afternoon I transitioned from Brave to Firefox. Brave was struggling, admittedly after a system uptime of 69 days, even after killing it brave would regularly struggle and do a whole ton of disc I/O, bringing my system to its knees. Rebooting fixes it, FYI, but it seems weird that "pkill -f brave" doesn't seem to resolve it. Slack also has similar struggles, this is under Ubuntu 22.04. So far Firefox has be…

If you have site-specific issues, if you're up to it it would be great if you could report it via the menu (or Help, on MacOS) -> Report broken site, or via https://webcompat.com.
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