The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist • Hacker News Board

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#21

Post by duped » Mon, Mar 24, 2025, 2:45 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #15

smithkl42 wrote: post #7

I wish the author was a little less over-wrought in her descriptions of the Green family's religious commitments. I've heard complaints before about the Green's artifact acquisition process, and they've had to return some manuscripts: it's a story worth investigating and telling. But it distracts from the author's main point when she's making snide comments about their faith. Yes, they're Christians who are successfu…

Completely agree. I think the author's tone in this article, in a nutshell, exemplifies what was a huge driving force of so many evangelical's in the US now being firmly in the MAGA camp, even though that seems paradoxical to many of us. For a long time now, many people who's religious values are deeply important to them have felt disrespected and looked down upon by "the left" (yes, I'm obviously painting with a bro…

Some beliefs deserve to be looked down upon and disrespected because they are backwards. I wouldn't call them "silly" because they're very serious.

I don't believe in treating religious fundamentalists with compassion and empathy anymore. That's how we got the nutjobs in power, by not deriding them enough in public and private. There can be no tolerance of hate, and the people you are talking about are motivated by hate of others.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#22

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 24, 2025, 2:45 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #15

smithkl42 wrote: post #7

I wish the author was a little less over-wrought in her descriptions of the Green family's religious commitments. I've heard complaints before about the Green's artifact acquisition process, and they've had to return some manuscripts: it's a story worth investigating and telling. But it distracts from the author's main point when she's making snide comments about their faith. Yes, they're Christians who are successfu…

Completely agree. I think the author's tone in this article, in a nutshell, exemplifies what was a huge driving force of so many evangelical's in the US now being firmly in the MAGA camp, even though that seems paradoxical to many of us. For a long time now, many people who's religious values are deeply important to them have felt disrespected and looked down upon by "the left" (yes, I'm obviously painting with a bro…

[deleted]

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#23

Post by beedeebeedee » Mon, Mar 24, 2025, 2:45 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #15

smithkl42 wrote: post #7

I wish the author was a little less over-wrought in her descriptions of the Green family's religious commitments. I've heard complaints before about the Green's artifact acquisition process, and they've had to return some manuscripts: it's a story worth investigating and telling. But it distracts from the author's main point when she's making snide comments about their faith. Yes, they're Christians who are successfu…

Completely agree. I think the author's tone in this article, in a nutshell, exemplifies what was a huge driving force of so many evangelical's in the US now being firmly in the MAGA camp, even though that seems paradoxical to many of us. For a long time now, many people who's religious values are deeply important to them have felt disrespected and looked down upon by "the left" (yes, I'm obviously painting with a bro…

> For a long time now, many people who's religious values are deeply important to them have felt disrespected and looked down upon by "the left" (yes, I'm obviously painting with a broad brush here). In subtle and not-so-subtle ways, the elite left essentially said "you all are backwards and silly"

Most of the criticism that I have heard and read is not about evangelicals being "backwards and silly" but is about their hypocrisy for claiming the mantle of Jesus Christ and then saying and doing things that are antithetical to his beliefs.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#24

Post by 1shooner » Mon, Mar 24, 2025, 2:45 PM UTC

Beestie wrote: post #12

Unclear as to the intent of the word "Heist" in the title. Seems they are paying top dollar if not more for collections sometimes not even authenticating them. As long as they make everything available to the public and to researchers, I don't see anything wrong with it. Also unclear on why this is a two-part story. Is there some big shoe to drop? Trying to avoid the impression that the author is not terribly fond of…

> The speed and volume with which Carroll and the Greens collected sounded an alarm – to good and bad actors alike – of a willingness to participate in the gray market, where the legality of goods is questionable enough that accredited institutions dare not tread. Many governments prohibit the unlicensed export of culturally significant items, and UNESCO outlawed the trafficking of cultural property back in the 1970s.

Without anything concrete, this seems more like innuendo then an explicit accusation. But finding someone to pay and claiming to make artifacts 'available to researchers' doesn't necessarily make archeological trafficking legal or ethical.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#25

Post by chuckadams » Mon, Mar 24, 2025, 2:46 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #15

smithkl42 wrote: post #7

I wish the author was a little less over-wrought in her descriptions of the Green family's religious commitments. I've heard complaints before about the Green's artifact acquisition process, and they've had to return some manuscripts: it's a story worth investigating and telling. But it distracts from the author's main point when she's making snide comments about their faith. Yes, they're Christians who are successfu…

Completely agree. I think the author's tone in this article, in a nutshell, exemplifies what was a huge driving force of so many evangelical's in the US now being firmly in the MAGA camp, even though that seems paradoxical to many of us. For a long time now, many people who's religious values are deeply important to them have felt disrespected and looked down upon by "the left" (yes, I'm obviously painting with a bro…

You're right, they're not "backwards and silly". They are fascists.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#26

Post by throwawaysleep » Mon, Mar 24, 2025, 2:46 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #15

smithkl42 wrote: post #7

I wish the author was a little less over-wrought in her descriptions of the Green family's religious commitments. I've heard complaints before about the Green's artifact acquisition process, and they've had to return some manuscripts: it's a story worth investigating and telling. But it distracts from the author's main point when she's making snide comments about their faith. Yes, they're Christians who are successfu…

Completely agree. I think the author's tone in this article, in a nutshell, exemplifies what was a huge driving force of so many evangelical's in the US now being firmly in the MAGA camp, even though that seems paradoxical to many of us. For a long time now, many people who's religious values are deeply important to them have felt disrespected and looked down upon by "the left" (yes, I'm obviously painting with a bro…

> even though that seems paradoxical to many of us

I think the only people in denial about it were those who view evangelical values as something other than the standing in the schoolhouse door values they demonstrated for centuries.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#27

Post by smithkl42 » Mon, Mar 24, 2025, 2:47 PM UTC

IOT_Apprentice wrote: post #14

Taking faith seriously: “he staffed “cerebral palsy patients” to chop, glue, and bag for $.10 per piece. Between the high demand and likely paying workers a subminimum wage, profits soared” Nothing like exploitation to drive home Christianity.

I don't know the details, but it sounds like there's a legitimate discussion to be had there. But the author's tone makes it difficult to trust that her reporting is in good faith. If there were extenuating circumstances, I wouldn't trust her to have included them.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#28

Post by lutusp » Mon, Mar 24, 2025, 2:47 PM UTC

> The fifth of six children fathered by Rev. Walter Green, God has always been at the forefront of Hobby Lobby patriarch David Green’s life.

Imagine having a family of ordinary children, plus God. And yes, the remainder of the article confirms the promise of this gaffe.

Two more examples:

> This begs an obvious question.

That's not what "begging the question" actually means.

> or participating in anything the Reverand [sic] Green deemed “worldly activities”.

What -- in 2025, no spell checker? By listing these examples I guess I'm being irreverent ... ant.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#29

Post by themaninthedark » Mon, Mar 24, 2025, 2:48 PM UTC

smithkl42 wrote: post #7

I wish the author was a little less over-wrought in her descriptions of the Green family's religious commitments. I've heard complaints before about the Green's artifact acquisition process, and they've had to return some manuscripts: it's a story worth investigating and telling. But it distracts from the author's main point when she's making snide comments about their faith. Yes, they're Christians who are successfu…

The author's tone is...definitely not neutral and it make it hard to believe them when they put pure conjecture in: "Between the high demand and likely paying workers a subminimum wage" with footnote "...While this practice was completely legal (current federal law permits employers to pay disabled workers a fraction of minimum wage), it’s certainly questionable practice coming from a guy whose entire schtick revolves around stewardship."

I was waiting to read how it was possible that Green might have kicked a puppy or drown some kittens.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#30

Post by Electricniko » Mon, Mar 24, 2025, 2:49 PM UTC

Beestie wrote: post #12

Unclear as to the intent of the word "Heist" in the title. Seems they are paying top dollar if not more for collections sometimes not even authenticating them. As long as they make everything available to the public and to researchers, I don't see anything wrong with it. Also unclear on why this is a two-part story. Is there some big shoe to drop? Trying to avoid the impression that the author is not terribly fond of…

It isn't that they weren't authenticating the items, it's that they weren't authenticating previous ownership. A lot of the items were stolen, as you can imagine there was a bit of wildness in the Middle East at the time (after the US overthrew Saddam Hussein). Which leads to the big shoe to drop. The people they were buying from and essentially funding is the group who became ISIS.