I had a simmilar experience with Ubuntu a few week ago, when I updated from 10.04 to 12.10. I was already using Awesome as my window manager so I wasn't exposed to most of there UI overhaul, but somewhere during the update they removed the battery indicator applet.
X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
21–30 of 128 posts
Re: X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure that it does. In fact the Mountain Lion upgrade deleted the command line toolchain from my machine. I had to go into Xcode and manually tell it to re-download the "Command Line Tools" optional extension.
That's just the stuff that goes in /usr/bin, right? Aren't the files always present in /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin etc.?
Correct. And you can always run it using xcrun (e.g. xcrun clang).
Re: X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
#23One can only hope the developers inside Apple still enjoy using the terminal and "unix subsystem" in their work, enough to keep these things going into the future. I mean, xcode still needs to shell out to run gcc/llvm/clang, right?
They have since day 1 - check out MPW, Macintosh Programmers Workshop. And I mean, since MacOS pre-1.0.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Programmer%27s_Worksh...
Re: X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
#24What I find disturbing here is the expectation that they would include it.
I was speaking to a Microsoft evangelist two years ago and asked him why it took them so long to release a new version of Windows. He essentially told me that Microsoft does the best legacy support in the world and wanted to ensure that every single piece of important software could still be installed and work with the new version. He also explained to me that Microsoft was not in the business of pushing new technology but that they were in the business of bringing it to the masses. It was his excuse for why IE was so much worse than Firefox or Chrome.
X11 missing from my computer was a simple google search away from a fix. It's not essential for 99.9% of Mac users and only developers and system admins would want it installed. They know how to use google.
To a company like Apple pushing technology is more important and supporting a fraction of users with something they can get on their own is spending time in the wrong place.
Re: X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
#25I had a simmilar experience with Ubuntu a few week ago, when I updated from 10.04 to 12.10. I was already using Awesome as my window manager so I wasn't exposed to most of there UI overhaul, but somewhere during the update they removed the battery indicator applet.
Suggestion, try the XFCE battery indicator: might bring a panel with it, I don't use Awesome.
Re: X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
#26TL;DR Linkbait/Apple is evil because they removed old software.
The article and some of his comments show a very narrow mindset. Thinking on how evil is every corporation, just for being a corporation.
Apple didn't include X11 in order to not tie the releases to certification and QA. In the other hand, many engineers on apple still work on XQuartz. Releasing more fast via the XQuartz
Everyone that really depended on it, has known for the last couple of years. And even beforehand talked about on the last rc's for Mountain Lion was a topic very active discussed with documentation readily available on Apple support site (http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5293).
And the same narrow-minded people replying with comments "my TASCAM (any hardware really) doesn't work on ML", blame the hardware vendors, they did have many months to do testing and porting of software to the latest release or at least inform your customers. It wasnt like ML was a surprise release and the same will happen with Windows 8.
Years of blaming that could be solved by RTFM.
Re: X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
#27For me, OS X has increasingly become too difficult for use in development. For a while there, it was the best, especially with tools like homebrew. But, it's just become too much of a headache. Too often, I find myself wasting hours trying to get over small OSS compatibility hurdles.
More and more, I've been finding myself picking up my 'other' laptop, firing up VirtualBox, and running Linux straight. I do miss the build quality of my MBP, though.
Re: X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
#28This is a very rational decision for Apple to make. 99% of their customers don't even know what X11 is, yet most of them will be downloading Mountain Lion from the Mac App Store. Not bundling X11 saves most users 70MB of unnecessary download.
Re: X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
#29The trend only appears disturbing if you few it from a very, very high level. Apple didn't do the best job of keeping up with some OSS components included in OS X. X11 is a great example of such a component. Outside of OS X, lots of changes were occurring with X windows servers. By including X11 (or even providing their own package), Apple was actually in the way. XQuartz dates back to 2007. There were five releases…
That's a good argument for Apple not including their own version of x11. But the author was most anguished that they removed an installation of x11 that he was depending on.
Did all the config go as well? The dotfiles? Did the author try installing the recommended X11 over the top to see if the old configs were picked up?
Re: X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
#30This is just stupid. Who copies text from one terminal to another. You are missing the entire point of the command-line and piping. This is clearly a novice who just wants easy access to X11 because he does not know how to use the command-line tools properly.
I manage remote FreeBSD servers with just Terminal. It is perfectly fine. And I never copy and paste text in terminal windows.