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UK IT job searching broken

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Re: UK IT job searching broken

#21
Job searching, or the reverse Hiring, is always broken, depending on the market mood. This is baked into all industries and comes down to supply and demand.

At this point in the cycle, the supply overwhelms demand. So naturally lots of people are not having success, and so the system is broken in that direction.

The best advice I can give is that in an up-cycle find a place that you like to work at, that likely pays less than big tech, that hires slowly and fires slower. Dig in, and build a long career there. Stop job hopping. Job hoppers are very vulnerable to market mood.

Of course that's useless advice now and will be mostly ignored in an upcycle when FANG is throwing FANG money around.

In a down cycle my advice is to stand out from the crowd. Do something that gives you a leg up. Show an employer some initiative, creativity, work ethic etc.

Re: UK IT job searching broken

#22

Job searching, or the reverse Hiring, is always broken, depending on the market mood. This is baked into all industries and comes down to supply and demand. At this point in the cycle, the supply overwhelms demand. So naturally lots of people are not having success, and so the system is broken in that direction. The best advice I can give is that in an up-cycle find a place that you like to work at, that likely pays…

That doesn’t work either. The market changes and eventually when they need to lay you off then what? Those slow growth companies either die or get taken over by private equity or sold off.

I would much rather make $300K for two or three years, live like I’m making $150K, bank the rest, get laid off with a fat severance and then look for another job after a period of unemployment than make $150K, stay at a job too long and then stil get laid off after a few years.

I’m 50, started really job hopping in 2008 and have 8 jobs since then after stating at my second “stable” job for 9 years getting 3% raises and seeing my bonuses decrease.

When I was looking for a job not by choice last year and the year before it took three weeks.

It was much easier finding a job based on my experience in BigTech than it would have been if my experience had just been a regular old enterprise CRUD developer like I was before 2020.

Re: UK IT job searching broken

#23
post #20
post #9

I got lucky with a US startup. At first I wasn't satisfied with working their hours, so I kept applying for UK firms. (I've since adjusted with lazy mornings and no sociability in the evenings.) But there's nothing. I mean nothing . Lots of companies putting out the exact same job listings, month after month, and I refuse to believe that they haven't found the right candidate after 6 months of continuous interviews.…

Back when we had the government ran labor bureau in the Netherlands the slightest unserious behaviour would get a company kicked out for a few years. Perhaps one day there will be a similarly serious job platform. The bureau did other hilarious things like pick 2-3 candidates for you then act offended if you didn't like any of them. Something like, we do have more qualified people but that level of skill is not requi…

We need something like this again. It's ridiculous to expect new applicants to have every minor skill covered, so I do understand the government offering the minimum viable candidate - training juniors needs to be a thing again.

Re: UK IT job searching broken

#24
post #14

I’d say the global economy is in a bind right now. However, might be tougher in the UK because of Brexit?

I really doubt that. I saw the market imorove and rates were higher, could be I came of a certain amount of experience at that time though.

I've found things have seriously taken a hit after IR35, but after interest rates increased saw the market truly become a desert.

Re: UK IT job searching broken

#26
post #17

I think there's a lot of things that's hurting the job market for tech workers right now (the large influx of code camp and sci-comp graduates being a big one), but in my opinion the main thing is this: https://www.statista.com/statistics/255146/number-of-interne... The number of people from poorer countries who are now on the internet has grown at an astounding rate of the last few years. Many of these people have b…

I think you're quite wrong. I'm not going to give up over a decade of skilled work because of a downturn. I'm not a fair weather dev.

when software is a fully outsourced function we'll see the same with marketing, sales, management, product. You won't need anyone locally.

This won't happen because of the problems culturally diverse teams experience.

I'm not being outsourced by AI, I'm being hit by projects going on hold because of budget constraints, and people not willing to hire a consultant because "they'll leave when the market improves".

Your coldness stems from ignorance not understanding.

Re: UK IT job searching broken

#27
Oh, I know your pain all too well. As a fellow UK dev that spent the last year or so looking for a new job before finding one, the market here is absolutely brutal for developers and software engineers. As you said yourself, the majority of roles seem to be fake (or not taken seriously), the few that do interview do a poor job of it and then if you're lucky you'll find one of the few jobs that are actually real at the end of it.

My advice would be as follows:

1. If you can leave the UK, do so. I hate to say it, but it feels like the economy here is just getting worse by the day, and the cost of living is ridiculous compared to the wages companies are trying to pay. Not sure where to recommend though, the US is currently in political meltdown and many other parts of the world pay rather low wages in this field as well.

2. Don't be afraid to take a temporary pay cut, or go for a job that's beneath you for a while. The hiring situation in tech is an absolute car crash at the moment, and companies aren't exactly throwing crazy FAANG level money around in most situations. Best to find a way to stay off the market for a few years or so until the situation corrects itself.

3. Avoid relying too much on job listing sites in general. The majority of listings there are either fake, dupes or flooded with applications to the point hardly anyone gets noticed. If you have a network, that's the best way to get hired, but recruiters and direct applications to companies are likely the 2nd and 3rd best options right now.

4. Be willing to accept roles outside of the company too. Yes a lot of companies only hire remote in their region, but some don't, and those could be pay better/offer better conditions than UK based ones.

Re: UK IT job searching broken

#28
post #27

Oh, I know your pain all too well. As a fellow UK dev that spent the last year or so looking for a new job before finding one, the market here is absolutely brutal for developers and software engineers. As you said yourself, the majority of roles seem to be fake (or not taken seriously), the few that do interview do a poor job of it and then if you're lucky you'll find one of the few jobs that are actually real at th…

> the majority of roles seem to be fake

I think in the UK most good posts are not well advertised, just sourced through recruiters. The trick is to connect with and follow good recruiters for your particular niche on LinkedIn.

Re: UK IT job searching broken

#29
I've had enough of the UK.

I'm leaving to start a startup on the Isle of Man. A wonderful island between England, Ireland, Wales and Scotland. It's also a tax haven many UK style taxes just don't exist there and the GDP/Standard of living is a lot better -> See you tube. 6th safest country in the world. Beautiful place.

We are looking for c# .NET Core developers up-to about 50K GDP initially + pension, relocation. We're doing some hot development with AI, Voice, ollama, llama, whisper etc. Willing for bright people to join us who can learn on the job and grow with the company.

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