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Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

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Re: Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

#21

Anyone else think this is a huge non-story? Like, of course there's going to be oxygen in distant galaxies. Why wouldn't there be? It would be far more interesting if there wasn't oxygen in distant galaxies.

From the article:

>Galaxies usually start their lives full of young stars, which are made mostly of light elements like hydrogen and helium. As stars evolve, they create heavier elements like oxygen, which get dispersed through their host galaxy after they die. Researchers had thought that, at 300 million years old, the Universe was still too young to have galaxies ripe with heavy elements. However, the two ALMA studies indicate JADES-GS-z14-0 has about 10 times more heavy elements than expected.

I didn't know this so I also wasn't surprised by the headline. Although it seems from this quote that they also did expect oxygen to be there, just not as much as they determined to be there. Although I have almost zero interest in space so perhaps this is bigger than I understand. I only clicked on the article because oxygen seems like a pretty simple compound to me and was surprised by the headline. I also think the headline is somewhat misleading due to the point above and how distant the galaxy is isn't the actual the newsworthy point as you say. It is only relevant to the extent that light from distant galaxies reaches earth slower.

The real headline should be something like "more oxygen than expected is created in young galaxies" which is indeed one of those space articles I would never click on.

Re: Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech's general atheism has left many tech people with a somewhat compromised ideological immune system: preposterous magical thinking is laundered with sci-fi language and accepted as plausible. (cf. the simulation "hypothesis", Roko's basilisk, paperclip maximizers, etc) Why not stipulate that the Flying Spaghetti Monster oversees the elections like an FEC commissioner? It is equally rational: the only difference is…

Nobody dogmatically believes in this. This is not an "ideology", just some people having fun speculating existence. A far cry from religion and conspiracy nuts. Stop being so grumpy!

That's not true, as made aware to mainstream people when the Zizian murders made news.

People in crisis are finding their existential grounding in these emerging belief systems about "the simulation" and other scifi-inspired ideas, are taking them exactly as seriously as novel belief systems from other eras, and are assembling into communities that collectively reinforce their beliefs.

I don't think you can really prevent that from happening, as we see it throughout history and geography, sometimes just forthing in small communities over a generation or two and sometimes sweeping across a whole societies in a profound way, but its ultimately common for "speculating existence" to be both casual parlour talk for some people and an emerging dogmatic belief for others. And that's exactly where we're at with this stuff now.

Re: Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

#23
I’m always a bit skeptical about these sorts of things. Perhaps I’m just ignorant about the methods used.. but the amount of data we can get from the most distant known galaxy can’t be very much. How confident can we be that the shift in observed light or whatever is actually from the presence of Oxygen and not one of probably countless other causes, both known and unknown.

Re: Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

#24

Anyone else think this is a huge non-story? Like, of course there's going to be oxygen in distant galaxies. Why wouldn't there be? It would be far more interesting if there wasn't oxygen in distant galaxies.

No, it's a big deal. The oxygen existed ~300 million years after the Big Bang. So what has to happen is hydrogen and helium have to coalesce into galaxy and into nebulae, some event probably has to trigger star formation and the stars created have to be really large.

To put this in persepctive, our Sun, which is larger than the median star, produces no oxygen and is ~4.5 billion years old.

Larger stars are theorized to undergo the so-called CNO cycle [1]. To get to this process after "only" 300 million years means the star or stars are truly massive.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNO_cycle

Re: Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

#26
post #15
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question, I'll try to cram it but it's a whole book based on 3 years of modeling ultimate futures: imagine all the universes from the most dystopian to the most utopian. Ours is in the middle. If you want to go to an above average one - no problem, many will join you to "the party". If you never helped no one and was in the most perfect utopia all the time and now want to go to a below average world (probably fo…

> Good question, I'll try to cram it but it's a whole book based on 3 years of modeling ultimate futures: imagine all the universes from the most dystopian to the most utopian. Ours is in the middle. If you want to go to an above average one - no problem, many will join you to "the party". Is there a literal book about this? Can you point us to it?

Thank you for your interest! Only long posts you can find in my profile

Re: Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

#27
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each universe has one vote, and they vote on whether to keep the computer running or not. We haven't figured out how to vote yet.

Tech's general atheism has left many tech people with a somewhat compromised ideological immune system: preposterous magical thinking is laundered with sci-fi language and accepted as plausible. (cf. the simulation "hypothesis", Roko's basilisk, paperclip maximizers, etc) Why not stipulate that the Flying Spaghetti Monster oversees the elections like an FEC commissioner? It is equally rational: the only difference is…

> Tech's general atheism has left many tech people with a somewhat compromised ideological immune system

It seems wrong to blame atheism for this. Somehow I doubt that devotion to a more traditional "Sky Daddy" would make people any less likely to play around with thought experiments about AI or simulations and the idea that religion has some kind of inoculating effect against magical thinking seems ridiculous.

People are just generally susceptible to magical thinking for various reasons, and philosophers often enjoy coming up with fantastic scenarios and those tendencies can manifest differently in people with a passion for technology than it does for someone with other interests.

Re: Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

#28

Anyone else think this is a huge non-story? Like, of course there's going to be oxygen in distant galaxies. Why wouldn't there be? It would be far more interesting if there wasn't oxygen in distant galaxies.

It seems like you could apply similar thinking to aliens, but if we actually got proof of aliens it'd still be a big deal, right?

Re: Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

#29
post #6
post #4

[flagged]

How/why does this result increase that specific probability?

If there were intelligent aliens billions of years ago who didn't destroy themselves, they probably build some simulations like we in a way already did with Google Earth, GTA, Minecraft, etc. The most likely is to have more and more simulations, until they'll have all the interesting ones (a simulated multiverse). They can even have a Dyson Sphere or Penrose sphere to capture the energy from a star or black hole

Re: Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

#30

Anyone else think this is a huge non-story? Like, of course there's going to be oxygen in distant galaxies. Why wouldn't there be? It would be far more interesting if there wasn't oxygen in distant galaxies.

We can reframe the story as: oldest galaxy currently found is much more evolved than expected. We expected something more primitive.
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