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How I got 100% off my train travel

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Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#21

Post by graemep »

controlledchaos wrote: post #11
sarreph wrote: post #8

The UK train system is a dire, expensive mess. Attempting to avoid getting directly political here, but I strongly believe it’s one of the lowest hanging fruit a political party could act on to curry favour with the electorate. Would be amazing to see this productised à la the way split ticketing works.

As a North American who travels in the UK multiple times per year, I really need you to elaborate. My experience has been nothing less than amazing, in comparison to the complete lack of rail options at home.

Low bar? British people tend to compare with rail travel experienced on holidays in places like France. Those systems do seem to be better (I do not have recent experience myself) and this then feeds the usual British tendency to take a rosy tinted view of the rest of the world and pessimism about the UK.

It also varies a lot in different places. Costs vary with types of tickets, who you are, and whether you have various discounts.

Local train services are very weak where I live (Cheshire) so while I can get to major cities quite easily its difficult to travel between towns in the county on trains (or buses).

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#22

Post by bryanlarsen »

colechristensen wrote: post #16
bryanlarsen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Somehow the prices are still high enough that it's cheaper to buy a cheap used car and drive it instead. City streets and roads are paid for through property taxes, so they are subsidized 100%.

Gas taxes and toll revenue account for about 1/3 of road infrastructure spend these days. This is significantly less than years past as the fixed gas tax hasn't kept up with inflation or adjusted upwards enough to match efficiency gains.

I was careful to say "city road & street" because those aren't generally subsidized by gas taxes, usually only inter-city roads and highways are.

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#23

Post by graemep »

moomin wrote: post #18
controlledchaos wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a North American who travels in the UK multiple times per year, I really need you to elaborate. My experience has been nothing less than amazing, in comparison to the complete lack of rail options at home.

America has much more serious problems with rail, but the UK experience still isn't great. The broad root cause is that back in the day we had the genius idea of paying multiple private companies to run trains on shared lines. We set up metrics to measure their performance that, bluntly, do not work. They underinvest and when there's any sign they're not making money, they hand the contract back. All in all, we get a…

The infrastructure privatisation was reversed a long time ago, and most of the delays, in my experience, are due to problems with tracks.

The biggest problems recently (for me) have been strikes and inadequate services. The rot really goes back to pre-privatisation (it was not great in the 1990s) and arguably started with the Beeching cuts of the 1960s, based on the decision not to subsidise rail in the face of increasing road use.

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#24

Post by thebruce87m »

djhworld wrote: post #17
controlledchaos wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a North American who travels in the UK multiple times per year, I really need you to elaborate. My experience has been nothing less than amazing, in comparison to the complete lack of rail options at home.

If you travel in and around the South East, inc. London the service is pretty good, regular although still very very expensive. In the north though it’s a mixed bag, frequently delayed, huge underinvestment, expensive etc.

Note that when an English person says the north, they expect everyone to know they are talking specifically about the north of England, not the north of the UK even if everyone else is talking about the UK.

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#25

Post by bombcar »

Tade0 wrote: post #14
bryanlarsen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Somehow the prices are still high enough that it's cheaper to buy a cheap used car and drive it instead. City streets and roads are paid for through property taxes, so they are subsidized 100%.

You could say the same about rail infrastructure, but you cannot use private vehicles there (legally).

You actually can, but the hassle is expensive. You have to coordinate it with the railroad and the controller and you have to provide a locomotive and an engineer and on and on and on, but you can do it.

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#26

Post by bombcar »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #22
colechristensen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas taxes and toll revenue account for about 1/3 of road infrastructure spend these days. This is significantly less than years past as the fixed gas tax hasn't kept up with inflation or adjusted upwards enough to match efficiency gains.

I was careful to say "city road & street" because those aren't generally subsidized by gas taxes, usually only inter-city roads and highways are.

The street in front of a house is often installed by the developer of the neighborhood, maintenance provided by the city or county.

But bigger roads in and out of town often have federal and state co-payments when built, depending on what and where they are.

Bridge replacements, for example, often involve federal funds.

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#27

Post by sebtron »

> Avanti West Coast offers customers:

> 15 minutes — 25% off

> 30 minutes — 50% off

> 1 hour + — 100% off

To me they look like very generous refund policies. I checked Italy's Trenitalia and what they offer is[1]:

> 30-119 minutes: 25%

> 120+ minutes: 50%

I suppose anything below 30 minutes is consideres "on time".

[1] https://www.trenitalia.com/it/informazioni/indennizzo_per_ri...

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#28

Post by drstewart »

Moomoomoo309 wrote: post #20
djhworld wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you travel in and around the South East, inc. London the service is pretty good, regular although still very very expensive. In the north though it’s a mixed bag, frequently delayed, huge underinvestment, expensive etc.

You have to remember what public transit is like in NA. What in Europe is unacceptable, late frequently, and problematic, is probably the best public transit someone from NA has ever been on, except maybe the NYC subway. It's a really, really low bar. NJTransit is considered one of the best in the US (and it is, unfortunately), and it's worse than anything I saw in Europe when I visited.

From NA

The UK definitely does not have the best public transit I've ever seen. ESPECIALLY for the price.

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#29

Post by comte7092 »

dlcarrier wrote: post #4

Where I live, in the US, the income from light rail fair payers is a laughably small portion of the operating budget, so all rides are effectively discounted by 90%+. The fares really only exist to keep homeless people from sheltering on the trains, but they do that anyway, without a ticket. Somehow the prices are still high enough that it's cheaper to buy a cheap used car and drive it instead.

> Somehow the prices are still high enough that it's cheaper to buy a cheap used car and drive it instead.

I find this claim to be incredibly dubious.

More convenient? A practical necessity? Sure.

Cheaper? Gonna need to see some receipts.

Edit: since at least one person appears to be grumpy about my comment, here is an example of a large system with light rail:

https://www.dart.org/fare/general-fares-and-overview/fares

For less than $200/month you can ride however much you want, with reduced price options for local fares and other groups of riders like low income, etc.

If you have a problem with my comment, please explain how you can but and operate a used car for less than that price when you factor in gas, tires, maintenance, insurance, etc. it’s just BS.

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#30

Post by diffuse_l »

This reminds me that I once worked in one city, and attended university in another city.

At some point, there were train lines works that lasted for a few years, which meant that almost any train ride was delayed. You got a ticket back for half an hour delay, and two for a full hour.

In addition, my workplace paid me a set amount of money to cover ttain travel expenses for each work day.

I think that for most of my studies I effectively didn't pay for train travel, and had time to work while on the train.

You did have to wait in line to get the ticket after the train ride, and the train officer wasn't too happy about giving out tickets, bit it usually worked...

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