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Rembrandt to Picasso: Five ways to spot a fake masterpiece

bbc.com

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Re: Rembrandt to Picasso: Five ways to spot a fake masterpiece

#21

Post by Daub »

mootothemax wrote: post #6

Once upon a time, I worked on behalf of a few luxury goods makers, tracking down counterfeit versions of their items, and getting the obvious and less obvious fakes removed before anyone could waste money (and their perception of the brand) on them. A few times, I would be invited to company HQ and introduced to the product, have the stitching and design details explained to me, a lay humble scruffy programmer. I can…

The most difficult fakes are those illicitly made by the same factory that makes the genuine product (under license). In that sense, they are not even fakes but the license holder doesn’t see any of the profit.

Re: Rembrandt to Picasso: Five ways to spot a fake masterpiece

#22

Post by bsder »

_tik_ wrote: post #11
6stringmerc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not an expert but it’s incredible with guitars as well - the craftsmanship when comparing something off an assembly line versus a true luthier crafted instrument. There are visual clues easy to spot like the tuning pegs, but upon closer inspection of the fretboards the material used for inlays is an indication, and then the intricacy of fitment. With something like an acoustic guitar - Pimentel versus an off the…

There is a market for Chibsons—not everyone is willing to spend on expensive instruments. As a beginner, I’m too much of a cheapskate to drop $9,000 on a musical instrument. I can’t even play properly or distinguish the right tones yet. I agree with you that, at my current skill level, my ability to express creativity and individuality is limited. But I’m okay with that. For now, I just want to enjoy learning to play…

> As a beginner, I’m too much of a cheapskate to drop $9,000 on a musical instrument.

There is a wide range of choices before you reach $9K. If I'm being honest, $9K for an electric is absurd.

For beginners at guitar, this is a great time. Thanks to CNC machines, guitars at low price points are ridiculously consistent. Yes, they're cheap, but they are precisely cheap. You pretty much get exactly the same level of guitar at the price point no matter whether it was manufactured 6 months ago, today, or 6 months from now.

The downside is that you don't find the bargain "stage queen" where all the stars lined up that day to make a much better guitar than it should have been. The upside is that you get way, way, way fewer absolute dogs that are unsalvageable.

Re: Rembrandt to Picasso: Five ways to spot a fake masterpiece

#23

Post by [deleted] »

Daub wrote: post #21
mootothemax wrote: post #6

Once upon a time, I worked on behalf of a few luxury goods makers, tracking down counterfeit versions of their items, and getting the obvious and less obvious fakes removed before anyone could waste money (and their perception of the brand) on them. A few times, I would be invited to company HQ and introduced to the product, have the stitching and design details explained to me, a lay humble scruffy programmer. I can…

The most difficult fakes are those illicitly made by the same factory that makes the genuine product (under license). In that sense, they are not even fakes but the license holder doesn’t see any of the profit.

[deleted]

Re: Rembrandt to Picasso: Five ways to spot a fake masterpiece

#24

Post by sagacity »

ljf wrote: post #14
sagacity wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were the case, why do museums exist, according to you?

As an opportunity to look at scarce things, that we are told are beautiful or interesting?

If the only reason you enjoy art is because someone else tells you it's beautiful, then sure, maybe it's not for you.

Re: Rembrandt to Picasso: Five ways to spot a fake masterpiece

#25

Post by dontlaugh »

WalterBright wrote: post #2

It's kinda funny in a way. If you believe it is real, does it matter if it is a fake? If the only difference is titanium in the paint, does that make the actual painting better or worse?

Indeed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F_for_Fake

Re: Rembrandt to Picasso: Five ways to spot a fake masterpiece

#26

Post by 6stringmerc »

_tik_ wrote: post #11
6stringmerc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not an expert but it’s incredible with guitars as well - the craftsmanship when comparing something off an assembly line versus a true luthier crafted instrument. There are visual clues easy to spot like the tuning pegs, but upon closer inspection of the fretboards the material used for inlays is an indication, and then the intricacy of fitment. With something like an acoustic guitar - Pimentel versus an off the…

There is a market for Chibsons—not everyone is willing to spend on expensive instruments. As a beginner, I’m too much of a cheapskate to drop $9,000 on a musical instrument. I can’t even play properly or distinguish the right tones yet. I agree with you that, at my current skill level, my ability to express creativity and individuality is limited. But I’m okay with that. For now, I just want to enjoy learning to play…

Your logic is terrible and Chibsons are terrible instruments - usually they are unplayable. They are SHIT simply built for making a cheap revenue through infringement.

A Korean made Agile for $300 is an actually playable instrument and not garbage. You don’t play so I don’t expect you to understand. Let’s just put it in a method you can understand - Chibson is the equivalent of somebody using your picture and LinkedIn profile to apply and get hired for a job. Do you extend your excuses to that scenario?

Re: Rembrandt to Picasso: Five ways to spot a fake masterpiece

#27

Post by 6stringmerc »

331c8c71 wrote: post #17
6stringmerc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not an expert but it’s incredible with guitars as well - the craftsmanship when comparing something off an assembly line versus a true luthier crafted instrument. There are visual clues easy to spot like the tuning pegs, but upon closer inspection of the fretboards the material used for inlays is an indication, and then the intricacy of fitment. With something like an acoustic guitar - Pimentel versus an off the…

> Pimentel versus an off the rack Breedlove, the sound will be staggeringly Not sure about acoustic guitars specifically but for electrics there's plenty of evidence that the magic is mostly in the hands (and the brains) of the player. Plenty of yt videos on that subject blind trials and stuff as well as stars playing regular or cheap kits.

I am sure about acoustic guitars and that’s why I specifically made that reference. There are situations with electrics as well - a standard Stratocaster versus a John Mayer PRS actually is noticeable to people who are at a level to understand these things.

Basically a lot of critique on my post boils down to “well I think and feel this” with no grounding whatsoever. I’ve seen those YouTube videos and they are entertaining but substantively shit from a professional musician standpoint.

I don’t wander into Ruby threads telling people JavaScript or Python is better.

Re: Rembrandt to Picasso: Five ways to spot a fake masterpiece

#28

Post by xhkkffbf »

WalterBright wrote: post #2

It's kinda funny in a way. If you believe it is real, does it matter if it is a fake? If the only difference is titanium in the paint, does that make the actual painting better or worse?

I agree that it doesn't matter to many people. If the image is great, then it's great art. End of story.

But when it comes to history, fake art can pollute our knowledge of the painter and the history. While many fakes use the same typical subjects, imagine that a faker created a canvas with a different story. If this story gets injected into the history, everyone's knowledge of the painter is corrupted.

Re: Rembrandt to Picasso: Five ways to spot a fake masterpiece

#29

Post by Ylpertnodi »

331c8c71 wrote: post #17
6stringmerc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not an expert but it’s incredible with guitars as well - the craftsmanship when comparing something off an assembly line versus a true luthier crafted instrument. There are visual clues easy to spot like the tuning pegs, but upon closer inspection of the fretboards the material used for inlays is an indication, and then the intricacy of fitment. With something like an acoustic guitar - Pimentel versus an off the…

> Pimentel versus an off the rack Breedlove, the sound will be staggeringly Not sure about acoustic guitars specifically but for electrics there's plenty of evidence that the magic is mostly in the hands (and the brains) of the player. Plenty of yt videos on that subject blind trials and stuff as well as stars playing regular or cheap kits.

I believe it was Rick Beato interviewing Nuno B: Nuno once tried Eddie VH's rig, and guitar. Nuno said he sounded like himself, and definitely did not sound like Eddie.

Re: Rembrandt to Picasso: Five ways to spot a fake masterpiece

#30

Post by Ylpertnodi »

6stringmerc wrote: post #8
mootothemax wrote: post #6

Once upon a time, I worked on behalf of a few luxury goods makers, tracking down counterfeit versions of their items, and getting the obvious and less obvious fakes removed before anyone could waste money (and their perception of the brand) on them. A few times, I would be invited to company HQ and introduced to the product, have the stitching and design details explained to me, a lay humble scruffy programmer. I can…

I’m not an expert but it’s incredible with guitars as well - the craftsmanship when comparing something off an assembly line versus a true luthier crafted instrument. There are visual clues easy to spot like the tuning pegs, but upon closer inspection of the fretboards the material used for inlays is an indication, and then the intricacy of fitment. With something like an acoustic guitar - Pimentel versus an off the…

>because they’re produced by a culture with serious fucking problems relating to creativity and freedom of expression and individuality.

Somebody's buying them, though.

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