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Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

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Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#21

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

spaceribs wrote: post #10
itisit wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money shot! I did not realize sewer cleaning required so much onsite IT. Are those rack units running computational fluid dynamics models to figure out how to unclog elaborate networks of pipes?

I'd like to believe it was an inspection van: https://nationalplant.com/services/digital-tv-inspection/ I'd like to believe that, but I don't.

I am willing to believe it was innocuous. The guy already spilled the beans and has been blackballed from government access. Does he require clandestine surveillance any more? Easy enough to get “national security” reasons why all of his devices need to be tapped. More intimidating to have visible GMen watching him for life.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#23

Post by tptacek »

kstrauser wrote: post #5

Nooooooo! He was my next door neighbor a few years ago, and I knew him as a person before I realized that I knew him as a hero. His dogs were fiercely protective of his house, which is perfectly understandable. One day I saw a "sewer cleaning" van behind his house, and I have a hard time believing that's what it really was: https://honeypot.net/2025/03/12/rip-mark-klein.html

That's almost definitely just a sewer inspection van; I found videos that company has of "multi-sensor pipeline inspections" with the same van, open, with the same equipment visible, and a bunch of people following a bunch of equipment down into a manhole.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#24

Post by rozap »

neil_s_anderson wrote: post #18

I find it odd how many people automatically assume that whatever the NSA is up to must be undesirable and therefore should be opposed. I mean, where do you think analysis of plans by terrorists and nation state adversaries to attack our nation and its allies comes from? The raw intelligence data these are based on can only be gathered by surveillance of communications, both targeted and in bulk. You should all be sup…

Yea, it's a good thing that since we live in a democracy we'd never elect anyone with bad intentions.

What a silly take.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#25

Post by skoopie »

neil_s_anderson wrote: post #18

I find it odd how many people automatically assume that whatever the NSA is up to must be undesirable and therefore should be opposed. I mean, where do you think analysis of plans by terrorists and nation state adversaries to attack our nation and its allies comes from? The raw intelligence data these are based on can only be gathered by surveillance of communications, both targeted and in bulk. You should all be sup…

We benefit from drug dealers too. They bring extra money into the community and they give rappers something to rap about.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#26

Post by BobaFloutist »

neil_s_anderson wrote: post #18

I find it odd how many people automatically assume that whatever the NSA is up to must be undesirable and therefore should be opposed. I mean, where do you think analysis of plans by terrorists and nation state adversaries to attack our nation and its allies comes from? The raw intelligence data these are based on can only be gathered by surveillance of communications, both targeted and in bulk. You should all be sup…

The point is that mass domestic surveillance of American nationals violates common understanding of the law. It makes no sense for the requirements to get a wiretap to be so stringent but the requirements to monitor someone's internet traffic to be nonexistent, just because it's laundered through "intelligence gathering" and you argue it's therefore not "law enforcement."

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#27

Post by efeamzaov »

dang wrote: post #11

Related. There were probably other relevant threads over the years—can anyone find some? Room 641A - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41507188 - Sept 2024 (5 comments) The secrets of Room 641A (2008) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38305501 - Nov 2023 (4 comments) Room 641A - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32984515 - Sept 2022 (2 comments) Room 641A - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23350120 - M…

[flagged]

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#28

Post by kstrauser »

AtomBalm wrote: post #22

He revealed unlawful surveillance years prior to and of the same gravity as Snowden, but only one became a celebrity. I would love to know the reason for that.

I say this without intending to denigrate Snowden at all: Klein's situation was less messy. Snowden had a top secret clearance and vowed to safeguard all the secrets he came across. Klein was just a regular guy doing regular work for a regular company when he saw something strange. That doesn't mean I think Snowden was wrong, just that there's a ton of room for people to say "I agree with him but he shouldn't have done that because he swore not to". Klein didn't have those obligations.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#29

Post by kstrauser »

neil_s_anderson wrote: post #18

I find it odd how many people automatically assume that whatever the NSA is up to must be undesirable and therefore should be opposed. I mean, where do you think analysis of plans by terrorists and nation state adversaries to attack our nation and its allies comes from? The raw intelligence data these are based on can only be gathered by surveillance of communications, both targeted and in bulk. You should all be sup…

Think of how safe we'd all be if we were on camera 24/7/365!

Let me put it this way: I don't do anything illegal in my bathroom, but damned if I want someone watching me in there. Everyone has their line they don't want crossed. Klein's - and the EFF's, and mine - is somewhere past the NSA monitoring every single communication in the entire country without a warrant. I have no objection with them monitoring specific suspects with a court order, but I don't want them listening to people who aren't being actively, personally investigated.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#30

Post by dannyobrien »

neil_s_anderson wrote: post #18

I find it odd how many people automatically assume that whatever the NSA is up to must be undesirable and therefore should be opposed. I mean, where do you think analysis of plans by terrorists and nation state adversaries to attack our nation and its allies comes from? The raw intelligence data these are based on can only be gathered by surveillance of communications, both targeted and in bulk. You should all be sup…

Well, the question at hand was, and is: what should we be supporting? I don't, in fact, assume that what the NSA is doing is bad, but in order for the public and the oversight systems the legislature put in place, someone has to know what's going on. The program Mark Klein revealed surprised legislators, including John Sensenbrenner, the author of the legislation that was used as a justification for the program: https://www.rstreet.org/commentary/patriot-act-author-introd...

Many people worried that the PATRIOT Act was overreach for surveillance, but the bill did pass. What happened with Mark's whistleblowing is that policymakers and the public found out that there were other programs, potentially illegal under even the PATRIOT Act (and, indeed the US Constitution), that had been hidden or obfuscated to their oversight bodies.

(Incidentally, the government's strategy in the cases against the NSA program was to say that even asking about legal authorisation and grounding of the program was in itself, a violation of national security. Many years after Mark's act, Ed Snowden's first published leak was this authorisation document, confirming that Mark was right, and that, had those cases been able to proceed, there would have been grounds for investigation.)

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