Live data from Hacker News

Fire-Flyer File System (3FS)

github.com

21–30 of 106 posts

Re: Fire-Flyer File System (3FS)

#21
This is very humbling.

OpenAI et. al kind of have also been very deep down the systems rabbit hole (eg. Triton), but I can't think of anyone else (outside of Google/Facebook) who pay this amount to attention to things.

Great work; hope Deepseek does even more awesome things going forward.

Re: Fire-Flyer File System (3FS)

#22

This is very humbling. OpenAI et. al kind of have also been very deep down the systems rabbit hole (eg. Triton), but I can't think of anyone else (outside of Google/Facebook) who pay this amount to attention to things. Great work; hope Deepseek does even more awesome things going forward.

[deleted]

Re: Fire-Flyer File System (3FS)

#23

This is very humbling. OpenAI et. al kind of have also been very deep down the systems rabbit hole (eg. Triton), but I can't think of anyone else (outside of Google/Facebook) who pay this amount to attention to things. Great work; hope Deepseek does even more awesome things going forward.

I’ve assumed that it’s partly because the company has done a lot of HFT, which is very focused on performance. But I’m not an expert in either.

Re: Fire-Flyer File System (3FS)

#24
post #5

Can someone convince me this isn't NIH syndrome? Why would you use this instead of SeaweedFS, Ceph, or MinIO?

> The final aggregate read throughput reached approximately 6.6 TiB/s with background traffic from training jobs. The Ceph team has been working on Crimson for years to get past performance bottlenecks inherent to the HDD-based design. I’m having troubles finding any ceph benchmark results that show any close to 100 GB/s.

Seems easy to find: https://ceph.io/en/news/blog/2024/ceph-a-journey-to-1tibps/

Re: Fire-Flyer File System (3FS)

#26

This is very humbling. OpenAI et. al kind of have also been very deep down the systems rabbit hole (eg. Triton), but I can't think of anyone else (outside of Google/Facebook) who pay this amount to attention to things. Great work; hope Deepseek does even more awesome things going forward.

I’ve assumed that it’s partly because the company has done a lot of HFT, which is very focused on performance. But I’m not an expert in either.

Indeed, the blog mentioned in the other comment showed part of 3FS code was completed at least since 2019, when this was still a project of the quant funds. In HFT, you tend to dogfood a lot of the things to achieve low latency, high performance, sometimes just because HFT system just need to do one specific thing, and those off the shelf stuff usually cater for a lot wider scenarios where HFT doesn't really care about. Here you see similar case which they focus specifically on loading large amount of data during training, and implement that to the extreme.

Re: Fire-Flyer File System (3FS)

#27
post #5

Can someone convince me this isn't NIH syndrome? Why would you use this instead of SeaweedFS, Ceph, or MinIO?

> The final aggregate read throughput reached approximately 6.6 TiB/s with background traffic from training jobs. The Ceph team has been working on Crimson for years to get past performance bottlenecks inherent to the HDD-based design. I’m having troubles finding any ceph benchmark results that show any close to 100 GB/s.

I'd argue that they don't need a filesystem or an object storage, they need a purpose-built data serving layer optimized for their usecase.

Re: Fire-Flyer File System (3FS)

#28

Can someone convince me this isn't NIH syndrome? Why would you use this instead of SeaweedFS, Ceph, or MinIO?

None of those are close to fast enough.

The only competitors in the parallel FS space that are useful for this are Lustre and Weka.

Otherwise if you don't need a single namespace a bunch of fat AF NFSv4 servers w/NFS over RDMA will also get you to 6TiB/s.

The "surefire" way though is still Lustre, it's the big daddy of distributed parallel filesystems still but it's an absolute beast to setup and operate.

Re: Fire-Flyer File System (3FS)

#30
It’s not clear to me where and how the current popular systems fall short. Do they talk about I anywhere?

Also, what specifically is the data access patterns for training and inference that are different from traditional use cases?

Post reply on HN