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Bifurcation: The secret giant islands formed when rivers split

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Re: Bifurcation: The secret giant islands formed when rivers split

#21

Post by jameshart »

BurningFrog wrote: post #14
jameshart wrote: post #8

This is not to take away from the fun of investigating and identifying these ‘bifurcation islands’, but on the question of whether they qualify as ‘islands’: > Like a delta island, it is surrounded entirely by sea and rivers. As an area of land separate from a continent, permanently and entirely surrounded by water, it seems to fit every definition of an island I can find. I agree that by ‘Air Bud’ rules these qualif…

I resolve these things is by remembering that words are only approximate definitions of real world concepts. This means there will always be a fuzzy area where it's not clear if the word covers it or not. I recommend not trying to determine exactly what the boundaries of the word are. Try using more/other words instead. This may be an easier thing to internalize when you know more than one language.

I’m extremely comfortable with fuzzy boundaries but the article in question literally invites the subject of ‘why are these things islands and these other things not?’

Re: Bifurcation: The secret giant islands formed when rivers split

#22

Post by debacle »

jetrink wrote: post #3

The article that follows that one is also very interesting and worth reading. It shows how a coastline that existed 100 million years ago and cut through modern day Alabama is still visible in demographic and election maps. (By a crazy coincidence, I just dug up that article and sent it to someone not even half an hour ago, since we were talking about geology and I remembered reading it. Then I go to HN and see this…

An interesting phenomenon. I remember reading similar articles about how, in older cities, the closer you lived to the water the more poor you were, but in newer cities the opposite is true. This rings true for many rust belt cities, and it makes gentrification a complex issue because public housing tends to have been built on what has become some of the most expensive real estate today.

Re: Bifurcation: The secret giant islands formed when rivers split

#23

Post by madcaptenor »

jameshart wrote: post #8

This is not to take away from the fun of investigating and identifying these ‘bifurcation islands’, but on the question of whether they qualify as ‘islands’: > Like a delta island, it is surrounded entirely by sea and rivers. As an area of land separate from a continent, permanently and entirely surrounded by water, it seems to fit every definition of an island I can find. I agree that by ‘Air Bud’ rules these qualif…

Wikipedia's list of islands (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_islands_by_area) starts with a separate table for "continental landmasses", containing Afro-Eurasia, the Americas, Antarctica, and Australia. Australia is ~3.5 times the size of Greenland (the #5 landmass) so between Australia and Greenland seems a nice place to draw the lint.

But Greenland is in turn ~2.5 times the size of #6 New Guinea. Maybe if Greenland were more populated (let's imagine, say, that the Earth's axis is positioned differently so that it's warmer there) it would be considered a continent?

Re: Bifurcation: The secret giant islands formed when rivers split

#24

Post by poizan42 »

jameshart wrote: post #8

This is not to take away from the fun of investigating and identifying these ‘bifurcation islands’, but on the question of whether they qualify as ‘islands’: > Like a delta island, it is surrounded entirely by sea and rivers. As an area of land separate from a continent, permanently and entirely surrounded by water, it seems to fit every definition of an island I can find. I agree that by ‘Air Bud’ rules these qualif…

Maybe a more natural way to make the distinction is by looking at the average width of the body of water seperating the landmass relative to the area of the landmass. That is an island is a landmass that has an area (A) of at least A_min and at most A_max and is either

a) Surrounded by a body of water with average width W_avg where W_avg > f_min*sqrt(A) - or

b) Surrounded by a body of water with average width W_avg where W_avg > W_min

Fill in the constants A_min, A_max, f_min and W_min to get as close as possible to real world usage of the word "island".

Re: Bifurcation: The secret giant islands formed when rivers split

#26

Post by BurningFrog »

jameshart wrote: post #21
BurningFrog wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I resolve these things is by remembering that words are only approximate definitions of real world concepts. This means there will always be a fuzzy area where it's not clear if the word covers it or not. I recommend not trying to determine exactly what the boundaries of the word are. Try using more/other words instead. This may be an easier thing to internalize when you know more than one language.

I’m extremely comfortable with fuzzy boundaries but the article in question literally invites the subject of ‘why are these things islands and these other things not?’

OK, That's a relevant context that I missed.

Re: Bifurcation: The secret giant islands formed when rivers split

#27

Post by eesmith »

jameshart wrote: post #8

This is not to take away from the fun of investigating and identifying these ‘bifurcation islands’, but on the question of whether they qualify as ‘islands’: > Like a delta island, it is surrounded entirely by sea and rivers. As an area of land separate from a continent, permanently and entirely surrounded by water, it seems to fit every definition of an island I can find. I agree that by ‘Air Bud’ rules these qualif…

I'm quite taken by your Goat Island example - thanks for mentioning it!

Re: Bifurcation: The secret giant islands formed when rivers split

#28

Post by jameshart »

poizan42 wrote: post #24
jameshart wrote: post #8

This is not to take away from the fun of investigating and identifying these ‘bifurcation islands’, but on the question of whether they qualify as ‘islands’: > Like a delta island, it is surrounded entirely by sea and rivers. As an area of land separate from a continent, permanently and entirely surrounded by water, it seems to fit every definition of an island I can find. I agree that by ‘Air Bud’ rules these qualif…

Maybe a more natural way to make the distinction is by looking at the average width of the body of water seperating the landmass relative to the area of the landmass. That is an island is a landmass that has an area (A) of at least A_min and at most A_max and is either a) Surrounded by a body of water with average width W_avg where W_avg > f_min*sqrt(A) - or b) Surrounded by a body of water with average width W_avg w…

I like the effort - does feel like part of what makes something an island is the width of the water surrounding it relative to its size… but I dunno man, the Pacific ocean’s pretty wide… it’s going to make the ‘average width’ of the water around Committee’s Punch Bowl Bifurcation Island pretty big.

Re: Bifurcation: The secret giant islands formed when rivers split

#29

Post by robocat »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #19

I live near what used to be several of these - Kaiapoi Island,Coutts Island, McLeans Island, Templar Island, no doubt forgetting some. Created by the Waimakariri River splitting into 3 branches as it neared the ocean. They're no longer islands as the two side-branches of the river caused repeated severe floods in colonial days, so large civil engineering efforts went into restraining the river, ultimately leading to…

For fun include Banks Island? I'm in Akaroa today!

The Waimak has drifted over a bunch of the plains - ages ago didn't it go through West Melton to Lake Ellesmere?

Re: Bifurcation: The secret giant islands formed when rivers split

#30

Post by robocat »

jameshart wrote: post #21
BurningFrog wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I resolve these things is by remembering that words are only approximate definitions of real world concepts. This means there will always be a fuzzy area where it's not clear if the word covers it or not. I recommend not trying to determine exactly what the boundaries of the word are. Try using more/other words instead. This may be an easier thing to internalize when you know more than one language.

I’m extremely comfortable with fuzzy boundaries but the article in question literally invites the subject of ‘why are these things islands and these other things not?’

Many boundaries are in rivers.
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