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Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

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Re: Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

#21

Post by tombert »

DC-3 wrote: post #16
tombert wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea how they managed to survive for years after that. The CEO was found guilty of fraud, and it didn't seem like they had any actual product.

It's the natural extension of the startup ideology to non-software industries. How many times on this website have you seen 'founders' be celebrated for doing 'epic demo hacks' at least this fraudulent? How many tech startups achieve massive valuations with a broken product and a totally hypothetical pathway to profitability? It's easy to see through this showmanship when the product is a car. So why not when the pro…

Can't speak for anyone else, but I have an issue when it's software too [1].

I think the reason that it's more prevalent with software is that it's easier to hand-wave away stuff, because you can say "well we're creating the market for this field". I don't fall for that stuff anymore, but I did when I was first starting in this field.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41723417

Re: Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

#22

Post by mschuster91 »

GJim wrote: post #20
pstuart wrote: post #3

Hydrogen has its place in our energy economy but its got too many issues to be used to power vehicles. Batteries have won, and synthesized hydrocarbons will be the alternative for where batteries won't work (i.e., most commercial air travel). That said, it's a pity to see this failure.

> Hydrogen has its place in our energy economy It certainly does not! (At least, not in any meaningful sense). A) How do you store it? Hydrogen does not compress to a liquid (except a cryogenic temperatures), meaning storage requires bulky, heavy and dangerous high pressure storage..... or cryo kit. B) Where do you get the hydrogen from? Electrolysis of water gives less hydrogen energy out than electrical energy you…

> It certainly does not! (At least, not in any meaningful sense).

The problem is, there are applications that for the foreseeable future cannot be made to work on batteries - airplanes larger than bushcraft and large-scale maritime shipping (the large ocean liners carry upwards of a million gallons of fuel).

Assuming we want to convert these away from fossil fuels - which we have to! - there are only two renewable alternatives: biofuels, which carry serious ethical implications given world hunger and soil depletion, and synthfuels made from hydrogen and sequestered CO2 as base chemicals. The problem is, synthfuels are absurdly expensive because there is no hydrogen market yet so there isn't much happening in scaling up from lab-scale.

Re: Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

#23

Post by martinky24 »

DC-3 wrote: post #16
tombert wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea how they managed to survive for years after that. The CEO was found guilty of fraud, and it didn't seem like they had any actual product.

It's the natural extension of the startup ideology to non-software industries. How many times on this website have you seen 'founders' be celebrated for doing 'epic demo hacks' at least this fraudulent? How many tech startups achieve massive valuations with a broken product and a totally hypothetical pathway to profitability? It's easy to see through this showmanship when the product is a car. So why not when the pro…

Can you point me to one single example of "a founder being celebrated on this website for 'epic demo hacks' that are fraudulent"?

Genuinely asking.

Be sure that the fraud is obvious at the time of the post (and not in retrospect), is actively celebrated at the time.

Re: Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

#24

Post by andix »

If somebody is interested in how the Nikola Trucks drive, there is a great YouTube channel from a German truck driver, that drives the European version (IVECO) of the Nikola truck on a daily basis across Europe.

https://www.youtube.com/@electrictrucker

German channel: https://www.youtube.com/@elektrotrucker

Re: Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

#25

Post by kimbernator »

bayesianbot wrote: post #6

I always wondered how it kept some value for a long time after the Hindenburg Research report[1]. To me, the report (and the CEO's empty response to it) made it clear there was pretty much no value in it, but the stock only lost 50% in the following week. [1] https://hindenburgresearch.com/nikola/

It's almost like stock value and real value have been entirely decoupled

Re: Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

#26

Post by tombert »

bayesianbot wrote: post #15
tombert wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They decidedly did not deliver what they promised. Their hydrogen truck did not work , which is why their promo video had to tow a truck up a hill and film it rolling down.

At least funnily the video delivered its promise as it was titled “Nikola One in Motion”

Technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.

Re: Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

#27

Post by lenerdenator »

tombert wrote: post #11
idontwantthis wrote: post #5

Remember when they rolled a car down hill because it couldn’t even drive?

I have no idea how they managed to survive for years after that. The CEO was found guilty of fraud, and it didn't seem like they had any actual product.

Financial momentum.

You have a bunch of people who consider themselves "the smart money" who have been had, and if they pull out, that's an acknowledgment that perhaps they're not that smart.

Re: Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

#28

Post by coliveira »

suraci wrote: post #19
bayesianbot wrote: post #6

I always wondered how it kept some value for a long time after the Hindenburg Research report[1]. To me, the report (and the CEO's empty response to it) made it clear there was pretty much no value in it, but the stock only lost 50% in the following week. [1] https://hindenburgresearch.com/nikola/

SMCI lost 60% after its auditor failed to audit and resigned after that, it roses 300% SMCI is also a target of hindenburg https://hindenburgresearch.com/smci/ before this, I didn't even know that a company that couldn't be audited could still be listed.

Auditing a company is not a normal procedure. Many companies, even in the S&P500, may have trouble during an audit. I remember there was a serious report about GE at one time, they decided to split the company as a response.

Re: Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

#29

Post by soneca »

perihelions wrote: post #17

A sample of old HN threads (this one's the origin of the "HTML5 supercomputer" classic), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24436721 ( "Nikola: How to Parlay an Ocean of Lies into a Partnership with GM (hindenburgresearch.com)" (2020), 414 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24473231 ( "Nikola admits prototype was rolling downhill in promotional video (arstechnica.com)" (2020), 248 comments) https://news…

There is also this older one (when they launched?):

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11683508

To give HN credit, the overwhelming sentiment at the time is that this was a very suspicious and scammy endeavor already right at launch.

Re: Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

#30

Post by hot_gril »

bayesianbot wrote: post #6

I always wondered how it kept some value for a long time after the Hindenburg Research report[1]. To me, the report (and the CEO's empty response to it) made it clear there was pretty much no value in it, but the stock only lost 50% in the following week. [1] https://hindenburgresearch.com/nikola/

People also bought Fisker cars again, even knowing that the company produced defective cars before going bankrupt last time (which they did again this time).
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