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The Generative AI Con

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Re: The Generative AI Con

#22
post #17
post #11

> And even then, we still don't have a killer app! There is no product that everybody loves, and there is no iPhone moment! I would strongly argue that coding assistants are AI’s first killer app. Copilot, Cursor, Windsurf etc.

Are they? I find Agentic mode on most editors barely useful. Autocomplete and inline editing is great though. To use these tools properly, you need to know how to build the same thing precisely.

But that still doesn't exclude copilot, which is the most intuitive and genuinely useful version of ai after chatgpt itself.

Re: The Generative AI Con

#23
post #15
post #12

I’m a little shocked at how much negativity there is around LLMs among developers. It’s a new tool that requires some learning, and it’s sometimes not so great, but if you’ve used an IDE with real coding assistance built in (eg. VS Code in Edit with Copilot mode - NOT Chat mode, using Claude 3.5), it’s honestly not much worse than a junior dev and 100x faster. And if the code is bad you throw it away and try again 10…

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

On this site, the adage cuts both ways.

Re: The Generative AI Con

#24
Hey I have my gripes with the landscape, certainly, but this is just too much.

> It sure is! But it doesn't really prove anything other than that people are using the single-most-talked about product in the world. By comparison, billions of people use Facebook and Google. I don't care about this number!

> User numbers alone tell you nothing about the sustainability or profitability of a business, or how those people use the product. It doesn’t delineate between daily users, and those who occasionally (and shallowly) flirt with an app or a website. It doesn’t say how essential a product is for that person.

Both of these "arguments" could be applied to any of the big tech giants of the last 25 years - Google, Amazon, Facebook, Uber, whatever (and there'd be other incumbents used by billions of people before them). I don't believe these arguments discount ChatGPT from having the potential to continue growing like a Facebook. And who cares how many journalists Altman knows, you don't get a product written about that much unless it's truly a groundbreaking product.

> And even then, we still don't have a killer app! There is no product that everybody loves, and there is no iPhone moment!

There sure is, it's called programming. He called out quality earlier on, but the quantity and speed and direction the AI can take (as well as its rate of improvement) is breathtaking. My own output has 10x'd easily since GPT-4 came out (although some of that means I'm needing far less hours in certain places). And guess what? The code quality is generally fine.

> Where are the products? No, really, where are they? What's the product you use every day, or week, that uses generative AI, that truly changes your life? If generative AI disappeared tomorrow — assuming you are not somebody who actively builds using it — would your life materially change?

Ok, the product is called ChatGPT, or Claude, or DeepSeek or whatever, and if it disappeared overnight, my programming productivity would drop dramatically. I would not seek to take on as ambitious projects in as short of a time frame as I am doing now.

I don't know, as a user and developer both of AI/LLMs, this article isn't hitting the mark for me. There are legitimate criticisms of the field, but I'm not seeing them thus far.

Edit - I'll say I agree with the Deep Research criticisms. These products are very underwhelming. They're literally to help people do a research report which needs to be done, but won't be used or read critically by anyone report.

Re: The Generative AI Con

#25
post #12

I’m a little shocked at how much negativity there is around LLMs among developers. It’s a new tool that requires some learning, and it’s sometimes not so great, but if you’ve used an IDE with real coding assistance built in (eg. VS Code in Edit with Copilot mode - NOT Chat mode, using Claude 3.5), it’s honestly not much worse than a junior dev and 100x faster. And if the code is bad you throw it away and try again 10…

Yeah I'm surprised by all the negativity as well. I'm listening to the post right now (using xtts-v2 finetuned on a voice I like lol). Sounds like these companies are overvalued / over hyped. Maybe they are / some of these companies go the way of myspace, but LLMs are incredibly useful for me.

I'm able to do a so much more using LLMs (Mistral-Large, Qwen2.5 and R1 locally, Claude via API) than without them.

I have to get the IDE setup properly now.

Re: The Generative AI Con

#26
post #10

This is one of the most tilted pieces I’ve ever read. For months Ed has predicted The AI Bubble will burst “any day now” frequently citing ai company’s revenue as a sign the product is not viable and the valuations are too high. The valuations seem to be primarily based on the R&D progress instead of on a theory that widespread adoption of the existing product will experience an uptick. The current landscape imho sho…

> The valuations seem to be primarily based on the R&D progress There hasn't been much R&D progress, though. Sure, as another commenter pointed out, context lengths have gotten longer and chat models can interpret images now, but the industry figureheads have been pushing agents, and we're not much closer to those than we were two years ago when GPT-4 came out. Current models simply are not consistent enough to do th…

By this I mean it’s a bet on what R&D might yield, current progress being some kind of signal. No one has certainty here. It’s an emergent technology and no one knows for certain how far it can be pushed.

Re: The Generative AI Con

#27
Plenty of AI companies that are cons or extremely overvalued, but the technology is the real deal and delivering huge improvements over previous techniques in all kinds of domains: language translation, weather prediction, code completion, self driving, etc.

Re: The Generative AI Con

#28
post #12

I’m a little shocked at how much negativity there is around LLMs among developers. It’s a new tool that requires some learning, and it’s sometimes not so great, but if you’ve used an IDE with real coding assistance built in (eg. VS Code in Edit with Copilot mode - NOT Chat mode, using Claude 3.5), it’s honestly not much worse than a junior dev and 100x faster. And if the code is bad you throw it away and try again 10…

LLMs are pretty good at the aspects of coding that I consider to be "the fun part". Using them has made me more productive, but also made my job less fun, because I can't justify spending time using my own brain to do "the fun part" on my employer's dime. And that was something I was particularly good at, which is why I was able to be paid well to do it.

So now my company makes more money, and the work gets done faster, but I can't say I feel appreciative. I'm sure it's great for founders though, for whom doing the work is merely an obstacle to having the finished product. For me, the work is the end goal, because I'm not hired to own the result.

Re: The Generative AI Con

#29

As a 40yo software engineer (at Microsoft) with no specific domain expertise other than using genAI for fun and some code completion, this essay/blog post articulates my gut feelings about where we are at, very well.

I am a math PhD student and I already draw some value from recent reasoning models. I strongky believe than in 1-2 years LLMs will become established tool for scientists to help with coding and math. I really don't think you can call this a con...
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