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US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

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Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#21

Post by Dylan16807 »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #20
Dylan16807 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Energy efficiency is a quality metric. Come on, I shouldn't need to explain this. Even if you disagree with that for some reason, it doesn't really affect my point. It's a tradeoff and they want different rules about what options on the tradeoff curve are valid.

No, Trump wants to gut anything related to climate change initiatives because they were enacted by the previous administration. It has nothing to do with quality tradeoff curves. You don't even have to do a lot of critical thinking to get this; Trump has made it pretty clear.

> It has nothing to do with quality tradeoff curves.

So do you think the claim that it's cheaper to build to looser standards is a lie, or do you think cheaper appliances did not play any role in motivating this order and only came up after the fact?

I'm pretty sure at least one of those has to be true for your claim to be true, and I'm quite skeptical of both.

(If you said it was mostly about climate change spite I'd be a lot more likely to believe you.)

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#22

Post by Dylan16807 »

scrose wrote: post #19
Dylan16807 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're ending ones that weren't even in force yet. The title definitely sounds like they're wholesale removing them. The title is very deceptive.

The article title is: "Energy Department Acts to Lower Prices and Increase Consumer Choice with Household Appliances", which says nothing of substance. The only part of the article that explained what was done states: "Today’s actions postpone the efficiency standards for the following home appliance rules:" Would a title of "US energy department indefinitely postpones efficiency standards for home appliances" sound…

I just want you to add the word "new". If you do that I'll happily unflag.

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#23

Post by anotherhue »

userbinator wrote: post #13

IMHO this is a good thing if it ends the now-common practice of chasing after tiny gains in efficiency at the cost of shortened lifespans and more difficult repair. The list of specifications developed during the last administration have encouraged the sale of bathroom and kitchen faucets, residential toilets and sprinkler nozzles that just don’t work well. I think that's been a problem since before the last administ…

You want the Commando-450 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUt6BWeL1GE

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#24

Post by tjpnz »

My home appliances meet a number of international energy efficiency standards including those set by the EU. If the US wants that to be somebody else's responsibility that's ok; but China et el aren't going to invest in separate production lines without it just for the US.

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#25

Post by scrose »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #14
scrose wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The title of the submission is nowhere in line with what the linked page even talks about. Flagging for our right lying. All the press release mentions is that they are not moving forward on new standards that Biden was pushing for while he was in office. Existing energy efficiency standards for appliances are still in effect. This is a very odd take. The title is based on the only part of the article that isn't PR…

If the title said "cancelling new appliance efficiency standards" it would be fine. You wrote "ending appliance efficiency standards". That is a bad title.

I can't change the title, but if it's worth changing, someone will do it or it will just be resubmitted.

I think "new" would make sense and I accidentally conflated them also writing about the EPA rolling back *existing* standards for other appliances in this article.

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#26

Post by JumpCrisscross »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #9
insane_dreamer wrote: post #2

So this is what it's like to go backward instead of forward. China cannot believe its good fortune.

To the down-voters: sorry if you don't like it; doesn't make it less true. You can be sure China is strategizing on how to fill the leadership vacuum the US is leaving in its wake -- this just being one of many.

“Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.”

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#27

Post by rurp »

This announcement is written so poorly that it might be one of the rare cases where linking to the primary article is suboptimal.

> the Department of Energy will postpone the implementation of seven of the Biden-Harris administration’s restrictive mandates on home appliances.

> Today’s actions postpone the efficiency standards for the following home appliance rules:

I honestly don't know if they are suspending new fuel efficiency requirements or all requirements for the given appliances.

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#28

Post by rurp »

kyrra wrote: post #3

The title of the submission is nowhere in line with what the linked page even talks about. Flagging for out right lying. Titled when I wrote this comment is: "US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards" All the press release mentions is that they are not moving forward on new standards that Biden was pushing for while he was in office. Existing energy efficiency standards for appliances are still in e…

The article is internally inconsistent and I'm not sure what it actually means.

"Today’s actions postpone the efficiency standards for the following home appliance rules:"

That sure sounds like they are suspending all standards, but it's poorly written so who knows if that's what they actually meant.

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#29

Post by qwerpy »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #11
insane_dreamer wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title is in fact correct. They are ending the appliance efficiency standards recently set. It doesn't say they're ending "all" standards, which is what you're implying. So you can drop the "flagging for lying".

They're ending ones that weren't even in force yet. The title definitely sounds like they're wholesale removing them. The title is very deceptive.

Thank you for doing this. Ever since the election there’s a concerted effort to exaggerate and mislead people. This site will go the way of Reddit unless people like you are paying attention and take action.

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#30

Post by yodon »

If you want to understand the impact this kind of energy rule had while in effect, read up on the Rosenfeld Effect[0].

Arthur Rosenfeld was the driving force behind California and US energy conservation regulations in the 1970's and early 1980's. His direct personal impact on energy cost savings in the US is unbelievable, even before you inflation convert it to modern dollars.

Disassembling an old refrigerator from before the days of those yellow stickers is a mind blowing experience. Refrigerators commonly had heater wires attached to their outer panels. Why? It was cheaper to manufacture refrigerators that had heaters on their outer panels than refrigerators that had adequate insulation (the heaters prevented the outside of the refrigerator from getting cold enough to cause water to condense on the outside of the refrigerator). It was cheaper to make them with heater wires, but unbelievably more expensive to run them that way. Consumers paid a huge price for that tiny reduction in manufacturing cost, and had no way of knowing that was happening. Those yellow stickers changed that.

Cutting waste, fraud, and abuse? Show me another individual who has come anywhere close to the direct financial savings that Rosenfeld, a PhD Physicist, delivered.

The article below primarily talks about his impact on reducing California's spending on energy, in large part because it's easier to quantify, but his impact nationally is undoubtedly much higher.

[0]https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2017/01/27/art-rosenfeld-californ...

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