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Watchdog ponders why Apple doesn't apply its strict app tracking rules to itself

theregister.com

21–30 of 72 posts

Re: Watchdog ponders why Apple doesn't apply its strict app tracking rules to itself

#21
> The Federal Cartel Office claims that Apple's ATTF defines "tracking" in a way that only covers data processing for advertising purposes across companies – but that these "strict ... rules do not cover Apple's own practice of combining user data across its ecosystem – from its App Store, Apple ID and connected devices – and using them for advertising purposes."

...yes. Apple defines "tracking" here as sharing your data with other companies, and then doesn't do that itself. Because that's the opaque and objectionable thing.

If you launch an Apple app then you probably expect Apple to know what you're doing. If you launch a Meta app, similarly you expect Meta to know what you're doing. But you might not expect Meta to immediately go and tell, say, some random company called Cambridge Analytica everything you're doing.

Meta absolutely could do exactly what Apple's doing without needing to warn users -- collect user data across its various apps, and use it to advertise its own products.

I do agree that Apple has carefully chosen a thing to object to that aligns well with their own business model. But I also think the thing they're objecting to is worth disclosing to users, so: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Watchdog ponders why Apple doesn't apply its strict app tracking rules to itself

#22
post #21

> The Federal Cartel Office claims that Apple's ATTF defines "tracking" in a way that only covers data processing for advertising purposes across companies – but that these "strict ... rules do not cover Apple's own practice of combining user data across its ecosystem – from its App Store, Apple ID and connected devices – and using them for advertising purposes." ...yes. Apple defines "tracking" here as sharing your…

The article says that in 2022 Apple started disallowing first party tracking within providers, actually. So in fact Meta can't do that, while Apple still can.

Re: Watchdog ponders why Apple doesn't apply its strict app tracking rules to itself

#23
post #7
post #2

The same reason they don't charge themselves 30% processing fees for subscriptions. Money.

They could charge themselves, but what would a couple of entries in bookkeeping do here. If you 'charge yourself' there is no cost, and no gain. It's meaningless.

It would make their apps look unprofitable on paper, unless they raised the prices 30% like every other developer has to.

Re: Watchdog ponders why Apple doesn't apply its strict app tracking rules to itself

#24

When I buy an iPhone and use iOS, I’m making an active choice to be an Apple user. When I install a third-party app and use it, I’m making an active choice to be their user too. When that third-party app embeds the Facebook SDK which tracks me, I don’t know about it and do not have the ability to consent to Facebook tracking me. ATT brings Facebook to the same level as Apple and the third-party app developers by givi…

If Apple believes the warnings are valuable...

Why not apply them to their own ecosystem?

Just because I might be a one-time user of an Apple product definitely doesn't mean I've made an active choice to be enrolled for marketing across their entire ecosystem, indefinitely.

Hell - I'm literally typing this on a Macbook that my work requires I use, I didn't make an active choice there at all...

Re: Watchdog ponders why Apple doesn't apply its strict app tracking rules to itself

#25
post #22
post #21

> The Federal Cartel Office claims that Apple's ATTF defines "tracking" in a way that only covers data processing for advertising purposes across companies – but that these "strict ... rules do not cover Apple's own practice of combining user data across its ecosystem – from its App Store, Apple ID and connected devices – and using them for advertising purposes." ...yes. Apple defines "tracking" here as sharing your…

The article says that in 2022 Apple started disallowing first party tracking within providers, actually. So in fact Meta can't do that, while Apple still can.

Yeah, but then it describes what's clearly third-party tracking. It's The Register, you can't rely on them getting technical things right.

> As one programmatic ad news outlet pointed out, Facebook was actually hit the hardest by the 2022 first-party rules because its software development kit (SDK) "plugged into so many outside apps and ... its attribution pixels [were] littered liberally across the web."

The article they link to there about the 2022 rules is from 2021, incidentally, and is just talking about other apps embedding Facebook tracking -- i.e. third-party stuff. There's a lot of talking about how "first-party data is valuable to Facebook", but it's all referring to how Facebook wants to use the data from other people.

Re: Watchdog ponders why Apple doesn't apply its strict app tracking rules to itself

#26

When I buy an iPhone and use iOS, I’m making an active choice to be an Apple user. When I install a third-party app and use it, I’m making an active choice to be their user too. When that third-party app embeds the Facebook SDK which tracks me, I don’t know about it and do not have the ability to consent to Facebook tracking me. ATT brings Facebook to the same level as Apple and the third-party app developers by givi…

> When that third-party app embeds the Facebook SDK which tracks me, I don’t know about it and do not have the ability to consent to Facebook tracking me.

With sensible data protection regulations, like GDPR, you must be informed and consent to it. We can talk about implementation details for months, but that's the gist of it.

Re: Watchdog ponders why Apple doesn't apply its strict app tracking rules to itself

#27
post #9

When I buy an iPhone and use iOS, I’m making an active choice to be an Apple user. When I install a third-party app and use it, I’m making an active choice to be their user too. When that third-party app embeds the Facebook SDK which tracks me, I don’t know about it and do not have the ability to consent to Facebook tracking me. ATT brings Facebook to the same level as Apple and the third-party app developers by givi…

> When I buy an iPhone and use iOS, I’m making an active choice to be an Apple user. > When I install a third-party app and use it, I’m making an active choice to be their user too. Are you properly notified of exactly what they record, and where they record it? In a form an average user can easily understand and control? Can you opt out of changes in something you are locked into?

No, but that's not what this system is about. It's literally just "are you going to tell anyone else about what I'm doing?"

Re: Watchdog ponders why Apple doesn't apply its strict app tracking rules to itself

#28
post #23
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could charge themselves, but what would a couple of entries in bookkeeping do here. If you 'charge yourself' there is no cost, and no gain. It's meaningless.

It would make their apps look unprofitable on paper, unless they raised the prices 30% like every other developer has to.

I don't think they even report out on the profitability of individual apps. In fact, I don't think they report on software profitability at all: the categories they report out on are Mac, iPhone, iPad, Wearables, and Services.

No one outside of Apple has any real visibility into how "profitable" any individual app they make is, so I can't imagine this is a factor in why they don't charge themselves the 30% cut. In fact, I don't think there's even any way for us to know if they do—or if there would be any meaning to it if they did (ie, would the 30% even go to a different internal account?).

Re: Watchdog ponders why Apple doesn't apply its strict app tracking rules to itself

#29
post #13

Maybe because opting into tracking via "Music" or "Photos" when I've already consented to tracking at the OS level is redundant? There's no unknown 3rd party here - it's all Apple. In the case of apps from the App Store, there are/were 3rd party trackers - I download "Candy Crush" and it sends data to Meta or Google or somebody else.

> I've already consented to tracking at the OS level That's very wide and obscure. Even the bullet points for how the OS can track you go past what can be considered informed consent. If that consent covers every 1st party app that will ever run on the phone then it's a guarantee nothing in about it is really informed. If you think a vague, blanket consent is all it takes then every company will get one in a jiffy. J…

> That's very wide and obscure.

It's not "obscure" to anyone who takes 5 minutes to ask for it. Apple will happily send you all the data they have about you.

https://www.cnet.com/news/privacy/apple-data-and-privacy-how...

https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-data-collection-stored-r...

Re: Watchdog ponders why Apple doesn't apply its strict app tracking rules to itself

#30

When I buy an iPhone and use iOS, I’m making an active choice to be an Apple user. When I install a third-party app and use it, I’m making an active choice to be their user too. When that third-party app embeds the Facebook SDK which tracks me, I don’t know about it and do not have the ability to consent to Facebook tracking me. ATT brings Facebook to the same level as Apple and the third-party app developers by givi…

If Apple believes the warnings are valuable... Why not apply them to their own ecosystem? Just because I might be a one-time user of an Apple product definitely doesn't mean I've made an active choice to be enrolled for marketing across their entire ecosystem, indefinitely. Hell - I'm literally typing this on a Macbook that my work requires I use, I didn't make an active choice there at all...

>If Apple believes the warnings are valuable...

>Why not apply them to their own ecosystem?

OP is only claiming that warnings for third party tracking is valuable. I'm not sure you go from that to "we should have warnings for first party tracking (ie. GDPR-style cookie banners)".

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