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Privacy Pass Authentication for Kagi Search

blog.kagi.com

21–30 of 359 posts

Re: Privacy Pass Authentication for Kagi Search

#21
post #10

The post hints at this, but having a shop where one can buy a privacy pass without an account makes sense. Should support some crypto currency (probably monero), and something like GNU Taler if that technology ever becomes usable.

Kagi accepts bitcoins but Vlad (the founder) mentioned on their forum that so few people use this option that it does not make sense to work on accepting Monero.

Re: Privacy Pass Authentication for Kagi Search

#22

Will the extension eventually be made available for Firefox on Android? Right now the Firefox extension link says that it's not compatible. P. S: I don't use the Kagi app in Android.

Not yet, but seems like I think they probably could do. Request it on https://kagifeedback.org/

Re: Privacy Pass Authentication for Kagi Search

#23

This seems cool, but I still think the pricing of kagi is rather steep. It is $5/mo for 300 searches a month, which is really going to get you under 10 a day... That's insufficient. Then $10/mo (or $108/yr) for unlimited. I'm curious if anyone knows, are companies like Google and Microsoft making more than $10/mo/user? We often talk about paying with our data, but it is always unclear how much that data is worth. Kag…

I don't have exact numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if 80-90% of google ad revenue comes from the ad prices they can charge for US users. I would be shocked if the percentage was less than 50-60% of revenue from US alone, which would put the value extraction per user for google at ~10$/month/user

Re: Privacy Pass Authentication for Kagi Search

#24

This seems cool, but I still think the pricing of kagi is rather steep. It is $5/mo for 300 searches a month, which is really going to get you under 10 a day... That's insufficient. Then $10/mo (or $108/yr) for unlimited. I'm curious if anyone knows, are companies like Google and Microsoft making more than $10/mo/user? We often talk about paying with our data, but it is always unclear how much that data is worth. Kag…

I support them ($10/mo) because they do a good job and I figured, if I pay, then the likelihood of them using sketchy ways of making money is reduced.

Re: Privacy Pass Authentication for Kagi Search

#25
post #4

What's to stop someone on the Kagi side from just adding a new column to the token table that has the user (with their SessionCookie) who generated the token next to it? I don't see how this can't be trivially connected to the original token generator.

Exactly the question I had in mind. You can't rely on server side trust so I'm curious if I just misunderstood something...

I think the extension they're using being open source helps with this? because it can be checked in there? not sure

Re: Privacy Pass Authentication for Kagi Search

#26

Pretty cool feature. The unstated downside is that any personalization settings like dark mode, translation, and lens settings are still seemingly tied to account login.

> The unstated downside

It is clearly stated in the blog post :)

We even considered variations of having some settings preserved in local storage and impact of that on anonymity. Ultimately decided that was not worth it.

Check the FAQ section (towards the end) for full details and analysis:

https://blog.kagi.com/kagi-privacy-pass#faq

Re: Privacy Pass Authentication for Kagi Search

#27
post #21
post #10

The post hints at this, but having a shop where one can buy a privacy pass without an account makes sense. Should support some crypto currency (probably monero), and something like GNU Taler if that technology ever becomes usable.

Kagi accepts bitcoins but Vlad (the founder) mentioned on their forum that so few people use this option that it does not make sense to work on accepting Monero.

Kagi's privacy guarantee is more of a "trust me bro" and I say that as a Kagi subscriber. While they may claim that they preserve privacy or anonimity as long as it's tied to a user account, or payment information nothing prevents them from associating searches with user. Even protonmail enabled logging for a particular user at one point. Their guarantee is on the same level.

At the same time, privacy pass is a very foreign concept to me. If they are transferable between devices, one could generate a couple and resell them over some other medium (even in person).

Re: Privacy Pass Authentication for Kagi Search

#28
Neat! It's rare to see that a service you use actually does something that benefits the user rather that itself. An unexpected, but a really pleasant surprise.

I wish this extension would integrate better with the browser by automatically understanding the context. That is, if I'm in a "regular" mode it'll use my session, but if I'm in a "private browsing" mode (`browser.extension.inIncognitoContext`) it'll use Privacy Pass to authenticate me, without me having to explicitly do anything about it.

(I don't use Orion, as there's no GNU/Linux version.)

Re: Privacy Pass Authentication for Kagi Search

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the the technical limitations behind gating it to unlimited accounts for now.

They could embed the subscription level into the blind signature.

But they still couldn't do accounting / query limiting for users on a limited queries per month plan. So you could do "yes you have assistant" or "no you don't" but their $5/month taster plan has a query limit.

Re: Privacy Pass Authentication for Kagi Search

#30
post #21
post #10

The post hints at this, but having a shop where one can buy a privacy pass without an account makes sense. Should support some crypto currency (probably monero), and something like GNU Taler if that technology ever becomes usable.

Kagi accepts bitcoins but Vlad (the founder) mentioned on their forum that so few people use this option that it does not make sense to work on accepting Monero.

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