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JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#21

Post by vips7L »

gf000 wrote: post #19
hadrien01 wrote: post #16

I still don't understand where Jetbrains is going with Fleet. Is it a platform to prototype ideas for their IDEs? Is their long-term goal to replace their IDEs with Fleet? Is it just a standalone product? So far, it seems like they're very slowly recreating their IDEs from scratch in Fleet while continuing development on the IntelliJ Platform and related IDEs, doing twice as much work for nothing.

I believe they are heavily reusing the non-UI part of Intellij and the like, so it's not really 2x the development.

Yeah I think they're just trying to get out of Swing by developing a new ui, Swing isn't that fun to develop.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#22

Post by endofreach »

codingwagie wrote: post #17

Personal opinion is that JetBrains products have gone down hill the last few years. Tons of memory leaks and performance issues. They are also way behind on the AI front, borderline obsolete in some areas. This is coming from someone who has used jetbrains daily for over a decade

Interesting. I have had the opposite experience. And i am happy that they're behind on the AI front.

Way too many tools force their shitty AI (API wrapper) upon me already. And i have yet to see any benefit.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#23

Post by deergomoo »

malkia wrote: post #6

I've been long user of JetBrains' products - and love them. I even use ReSharper in Visual Studio (which I still consider better IDE, but for Linux / Mac - JetBrains is my choice, and heck, sometimes even Rider/CLion/RustRover/GoLand on Windows too - especcially GoLand). But... but... I've always wanted (and willing to pay) a single IDE with any plugin that works in it - not just so many different versions... I'm a m…

I would happily pay through the nose for their language and refactoring features as some sort of LSP or plugin for other editors.

I use their products because that aspect is best-in-class for many languages, but the actual applications themselves leave a lot of be desired. Core text editing is pretty good, but so many Byzantine nested menus and odd Java fully-modal locks-out-the-background dialogs.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#24

Post by surrTurr »

realityfactchex wrote: post #20
codingwagie wrote: post #17

Personal opinion is that JetBrains products have gone down hill the last few years. Tons of memory leaks and performance issues. They are also way behind on the AI front, borderline obsolete in some areas. This is coming from someone who has used jetbrains daily for over a decade

What would you suggested instead of JetBrains tools for AI-assisted development? (I don't just want to hear what everyone says; I specifically I want to hear what JetBrains lovers think about this.) I was about to go all in on JetBrains becaue I can't stand VSCode, and about to transition from ChatGPT only to trying out in-IDE integrations... but if there's a better thing to try first... all ears.

JetBrains is WAY behind VS-Code and its forks (e.g. Cursor) in terms of AI features.

Their own offering, "Jetbrains AI" absolutely SUCKS (just read the reviews, you'll see why).

Third-party AI plugins are pretty basic. Most just offer inline completions and a chat sidebar. For example, GitHub Copilot for Intellij is a shell of itself: No agent capabilities, or even model switching (although that seems to be coming in a future update).

Generally speaking, Jetbrains seems to have missed the AI code editor revolution, and are now trying to play catch-up. The problem is that their plugin API seems to offer less capabilities than VS-Code when it comes to implementing advanced AI features (think of cursor like features). This, combined with the fact that Intellij products are closed source and can't simply be forked by someone who requires additional capabilities, makes it hard for third parties to build advanced AI features.

PS: I also tested their new "Agent" plugin called Junie (invite only beta). It's really basic (like 30% as good as cursors agent mode), but since it's still in invite only beta this should be taken with a grain of salt.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#25

Post by laerus »

endofreach wrote: post #22
codingwagie wrote: post #17

Personal opinion is that JetBrains products have gone down hill the last few years. Tons of memory leaks and performance issues. They are also way behind on the AI front, borderline obsolete in some areas. This is coming from someone who has used jetbrains daily for over a decade

Interesting. I have had the opposite experience. And i am happy that they're behind on the AI front. Way too many tools force their shitty AI (API wrapper) upon me already. And i have yet to see any benefit.

Agreed, RustRover is by far the best IDE for Rust atm. I also use the AI Assistant which is so toned down that it's actually useful and not full of spam.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#26

Post by tadfisher »

vips7L wrote: post #21
gf000 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe they are heavily reusing the non-UI part of Intellij and the like, so it's not really 2x the development.

Yeah I think they're just trying to get out of Swing by developing a new ui, Swing isn't that fun to develop.

Unfortunately they started building Fleet before Compose Multiplatform was ready, so now they support three UI technologies. Granted, Fleet uses the same rendering base as Compose (Skiko), but that's got to be a dead end ultimately.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#27

Post by tadfisher »

vips7L wrote: post #13
techwizrd wrote: post #4

This is definitely surprising given they announced a KMP standalone IDE only a few months ago. For now, Flutter still seems to make more sense than KMP while the KMP world is still maturing.

Dart is an amazing and underrated language too. It compiles to native assembly, has pattern matching, async/await, and null safety. The only thing it's missing in my opinion is some form of checked errors, currently they only have unchecked exceptions.

The modern language landscape is backing away from checked exceptions. Funnily enough Kotlin eschewed them as well, converting checked to unchecked exceptions on the JVM.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#28

Post by solardev »

hadrien01 wrote: post #16

I still don't understand where Jetbrains is going with Fleet. Is it a platform to prototype ideas for their IDEs? Is their long-term goal to replace their IDEs with Fleet? Is it just a standalone product? So far, it seems like they're very slowly recreating their IDEs from scratch in Fleet while continuing development on the IntelliJ Platform and related IDEs, doing twice as much work for nothing.

I think Fleet's their hopeful answer to VSCode. IntelliJ is powerful, but so, so messy, with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s. Even the simplified one is much klunklier than VSCode, especially for everyday/every-hour tasks like NPM scripts, debugging, etc. Every essential function is hidden in tiny competing side panels triggered by some obscure icon in a different part of the screen.

I love and use Jetbrains IDEs every day, but after a decade I still only find their UIs merely tolerable. Many of my colleagues try them out for an hour or two and then jump ship back to VSCode just because the initial "wtf is going on" factor is so high =/

I'm guessing Fleet was their answer, an opportunity to develop a greenfield UI for a new generation of devs raised with UX (vs the old guard of IntelliJ users from past decades). It made sense, until AI suddenly took over everything and nobody cared what your IDE UI is like anymore.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#29

Post by NeutralForest »

vips7L wrote: post #13
techwizrd wrote: post #4

This is definitely surprising given they announced a KMP standalone IDE only a few months ago. For now, Flutter still seems to make more sense than KMP while the KMP world is still maturing.

Dart is an amazing and underrated language too. It compiles to native assembly, has pattern matching, async/await, and null safety. The only thing it's missing in my opinion is some form of checked errors, currently they only have unchecked exceptions.

I just don't trust Google with a programming language. I feel like Golang has escaped the orbit of Google and could survive without it (I might be wrong). But for Dart I'm pretty sure it would die fast and I don't want to invest time into it as a result.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#30

Post by ta988 »

codingwagie wrote: post #17

Personal opinion is that JetBrains products have gone down hill the last few years. Tons of memory leaks and performance issues. They are also way behind on the AI front, borderline obsolete in some areas. This is coming from someone who has used jetbrains daily for over a decade

I have the exact opposite experience same thing almost a decade. They were great then there was a phase of really bad performance around 5-6y ago and in the last 3 years it has been much better improving with each version. It is especially much more reactive when indexing large projects or just navigating them.
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