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OnLive comes to Ouya, Controller Makes Full Frontal Debut

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Re: OnLive comes to Ouya, Controller Makes Full Frontal Debut

#21

Post by slantyyz »

stewie2 wrote: post #17
slantyyz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Consoles lack a good input anyway, compared to the mouse. I don't get why some people think that gaming is all about FPS's and RTS games. Why on earth would I want to use a mouse on a game like Street Fighter IV, Tetris, Bust-A-Move, Pac Man, Mario, Virtua Fighter, Tekken, etc. I can name a lot of games that work better with a traditional D-Pad type of controller than they would with a keyboard or mouse.

I'd like to use a keyboard to play street fighter and super mario. The reason I think keyboard is superior is that when using a keyboard, I can have few fingers on top of keys at the same time. Whereas when using the controller, I just use two thumbs. My thumb has to jump between buttons in order to switch different moves. That is slow.

You should try using a stick with Street Fighter. I can't pull SF moves off very well with a pad, but with the stick (especially if it has an octagonal gate), it's super easy.

There is something called a "Hitbox", which is a fighting controller that is all buttons: http://www.hitboxarcade.com/

I think a few people at EVO were using hitboxes.

Re: OnLive comes to Ouya, Controller Makes Full Frontal Debut

#22

Post by drharris »

teamonkey wrote: post #15
onli wrote: post #7

This is where projects like this may fail brutally. Controller-design is hard. Mapping small fast movements to the screen, especially when playing 3D-games, needs a perfectly for the job designed hardware. Consoles lack a good input anyway, compared to the mouse. That is why kinect was so promising, though of course movement-controllers have their own set of issues. Their solution now is to cave. They didn't design t…

Personal opinion about game controllers aside, I'm worried about infringement. Game controllers are heavily patented and designmarked and their design is as much about avoiding legal pitfalls as making a good input device. Similarly, doesn't their console UI look dangerously close to the current Xbox dashboard? Surely this infringes on Metro in a big way?

Metro is a design philosophy, not anything that can be infringed. Microsoft is actually heavily evangelizing Metro, and would probably be pleased to see the competition playing catch-up for once. That said, individual interactions can be patented, and OUYA would definitely have to steer clear of this. I would say the biggest issue might be the colored button graphics representing the actions to perform; this looks and feels like Xbox, and would probably be a grey area for sure.

Re: OnLive comes to Ouya, Controller Makes Full Frontal Debut

#23

Post by needle0 »

pvidler wrote: post #18
onli wrote: post #7

This is where projects like this may fail brutally. Controller-design is hard. Mapping small fast movements to the screen, especially when playing 3D-games, needs a perfectly for the job designed hardware. Consoles lack a good input anyway, compared to the mouse. That is why kinect was so promising, though of course movement-controllers have their own set of issues. Their solution now is to cave. They didn't design t…

If their controller fails horribly, perhaps they could use the OnLive 'universal' controller -- the one that works with OnLive's console as well as all laptops and android/iOS devices. It's actually a really nice controller -- better than the PS3, slightly worse than the Xbox 360 (but without the battery pack issues).

Wait, how can the OnLive controller support iOS? AFAIK iOS only supports Bluetooth HID keyboards, not joysticks/gamepads.

Re: OnLive comes to Ouya, Controller Makes Full Frontal Debut

#25

Post by Cushman »

slantyyz wrote: post #8
onli wrote: post #7

This is where projects like this may fail brutally. Controller-design is hard. Mapping small fast movements to the screen, especially when playing 3D-games, needs a perfectly for the job designed hardware. Consoles lack a good input anyway, compared to the mouse. That is why kinect was so promising, though of course movement-controllers have their own set of issues. Their solution now is to cave. They didn't design t…

>> Consoles lack a good input anyway, compared to the mouse. I don't get why some people think that gaming is all about FPS's and RTS games. Why on earth would I want to use a mouse on a game like Street Fighter IV, Tetris, Bust-A-Move, Pac Man, Mario, Virtua Fighter, Tekken, etc. I can name a lot of games that work better with a traditional D-Pad type of controller than they would with a keyboard or mouse.

The D-pad setup has a serious limitation in that it forces you to use your thumbs. I have ten fingers; with a keyboard, I can have instantaneous command over ten actions (though eight or nine is more usual). With a console controller, it's two. (Four if we count triggers, but console games tend not to have fully-reconfigurable controls.)

I ran into this playing the Tony Hawk games, which I loved on the PC; on the console, executing complex combos feels like a thumb workout.

Obviously it is still a stylistic choice; the keyboard enables faster, more focused play, while the controller encourages a more laid-back playstyle which still feels competitive. But it does that by deliberately crippling the control you have, and you should embrace that.

Re: OnLive comes to Ouya, Controller Makes Full Frontal Debut

#26

Post by adam-a »

onli wrote: post #7

This is where projects like this may fail brutally. Controller-design is hard. Mapping small fast movements to the screen, especially when playing 3D-games, needs a perfectly for the job designed hardware. Consoles lack a good input anyway, compared to the mouse. That is why kinect was so promising, though of course movement-controllers have their own set of issues. Their solution now is to cave. They didn't design t…

>> That is why kinect was so promising

Perhaps it was promising, but it is fairly terrible in practice. Except for a few dance and fitness games. The thing about traditional controllers is they are both precise and abstracted. Button presses are clear, and work well with the complexity of most games. The analogue features give a higher degree of control but are still very discrete. As for their abstracted nature, one of the distinguishing features of humans vs animals is our ability to use tools, devices which are one step abstracted from direct action. This is why controllers, mice, keyboards, etc work. Why not embrace it instead of trying to work around it with immature technology like the Kinect?

>> Their solution now is to cave. They didn't design their own controller

So why do you think they need to revolutionise the controller? The original XBox had a mild stab at something new but they quickly reverted to a design much more similar to the Playstation Dual Shock. The target market for Ouya is XBLA and PSN players, people who want a cheaper, more open living room console. They are sensible not to try to reinvent the wheel when they don't have the resources to do it well and their audience likes the existing wheel.

Re: OnLive comes to Ouya, Controller Makes Full Frontal Debut

#27

Post by Cushman »

needle0 wrote: post #23
pvidler wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If their controller fails horribly, perhaps they could use the OnLive 'universal' controller -- the one that works with OnLive's console as well as all laptops and android/iOS devices. It's actually a really nice controller -- better than the PS3, slightly worse than the Xbox 360 (but without the battery pack issues).

Wait, how can the OnLive controller support iOS? AFAIK iOS only supports Bluetooth HID keyboards, not joysticks/gamepads.

Maybe it pretends it's a keyboard. It's not like they're tied down to gamepad drivers.

Re: OnLive comes to Ouya, Controller Makes Full Frontal Debut

#28

Post by TheEzEzz »

The big news here isn't the controller, it's OnLive. With Google fiber rolling out, and eventually pushing the country toward gigabit, there will no longer be any reason why a cheap, weak box with an internet connection can't topple the console giants. Eventually this will spill over into general computing. There is a giant pie to be won here, and both OnLive and Google know how valuable it is.

Re: OnLive comes to Ouya, Controller Makes Full Frontal Debut

#29

Post by aprendo »

onli wrote: post #7

This is where projects like this may fail brutally. Controller-design is hard. Mapping small fast movements to the screen, especially when playing 3D-games, needs a perfectly for the job designed hardware. Consoles lack a good input anyway, compared to the mouse. That is why kinect was so promising, though of course movement-controllers have their own set of issues. Their solution now is to cave. They didn't design t…

I don’t think this matters if it’s possible to plug in an Xbox controller. They are ubiquitous, cheap and competent.
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