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Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

routersecurity.org

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Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#21

Post by OkGoDoIt »

I wish. I own my own modem and router, but Comcast won’t let me use them unless I pay a whole bunch of extra fees or accept a stupidly low monthly data cap. I’ve got my router downstream of theirs which is a bit annoying, especially considering their modem-router combo overheats and needs to be rebooted via unplugging power at least once a month.

Sadly I have no other options here in San Francisco. My house is not wired for phone service so I cannot get DSL. The various fiber services that are becoming more available in San Francisco are generally only available downtown or large apartment buildings. My freestanding house can’t get any of that. AT&T‘s new fiber doesn’t connect to me either. And webpass doesn’t have a good line of sight from my location to any of their microwave towers so I can’t get that. It is Comcast or nothing. It always amazes me that San Francisco is supposedly the tech capital of the world but internet connectivity here is worse than rural China. (And that’s not an exaggeration, I’ve spent plenty of time in rural China and in the mountains there, both the cellular and hardline service is infinitely better than San Francisco, aside from the firewall issues of course)

…I guess that turned into a bit of a personal rant but holy crap how is it 2025 and this is still a problem in a major tech city?

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#22

Post by blibble »

jeroenhd wrote: post #8

My ISP sent over a Fritz!box (though they offered a "bring your own" option as well). It came preconfigured for my ISP. I turned off remote access and TR-069 through a toggle in the settings, then changed the admin password. Really, that's all you need to do to take control of one of these routers. There are good reasons to dislike the AVM routers, but their software is actually pretty solid in terms of customisation…

as a note I've had a fritzbox turn those settings back on itself without my doing anything

the thing went in the bin the next day

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#23

Post by Tijdreiziger »

jeroenhd wrote: post #8

My ISP sent over a Fritz!box (though they offered a "bring your own" option as well). It came preconfigured for my ISP. I turned off remote access and TR-069 through a toggle in the settings, then changed the admin password. Really, that's all you need to do to take control of one of these routers. There are good reasons to dislike the AVM routers, but their software is actually pretty solid in terms of customisation…

AVM/Fritz is kind of a ‘premium’ option, though. Most ISPs provide hardware from e.g. Sagemcom or Zyxel (with locked-down firmware).

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#24

Post by honestSysAdmin »

Always treat hardware you get from someone else as not just untrusted but hostile until proven beyond any reasonable doubt otherwise.

Put an OpenBSD machine to act as a router/firewall between supplied devices and your own network to keep things clean.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#25

Post by denkmoon »

Some of the comments here about ISP behaviour are crazy. Australia has had our fair share of fucking up the national internet infrastructure but at least I can pick pretty much any ISP and use any router I like. Haven't used an ISP supplied router in something like 15 years.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#26

Post by AdmiralAsshat »

Verizon's FiOS routers have been decent. I used theirs when I last moved, and it automatically setup a separate IoT network, in addition to the normal and guest networks.

I've been meaning to buy and setup a mesh, but they sent me an extender for free, and they haven't charged a modem rental fee either like Cox/Comcast did, so I've been living with "free" for awhile until I see a good mesh router on sale.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#27

Post by Dylan16807 »

pyuser583 wrote: post #6

The part about a cockroach colony is a bit unfair. Insects love electronics, with the heat and noise they generate. And when electronics sit in storage for a long time, the critters can crawl in from neighboring items. This is just as likely to happen with a non-ISP router. Ok, in all fairness I don’t have any stats to back up that claim. But nobody else does either. That open source router you love so much may have…

> the critters can crawl in from neighboring items

When it's shrink wrapped?

And why would a used device be on the shelf next to the new router I was buying?

You can argue this is "just as likely" with used devices, maybe. But if I'm buying a router it's not going to be used.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#28

Post by tombert »

RajT88 wrote: post #13

ISP's thanks to a bill cannot charge rental fees anymore: https://www.pcmag.com/news/isps-cant-charge-you-for-using-yo... Unless they come up with a BS security excuse, like cert based auth to their network, which means they claim they cannot offer people to BYOE. I bought an old DSL modem off eBay some years back and tried to get AT&T to waive the rental fee (honestly thinking I was in the clear). They were not havi…

I still have to the use the Verizon Fios ONT, and as far as I know there's no way to avoid that, but at least Verizon hasn't given me any shit for providing my own router. I still get the advertised speeds and it makes me happy to own my own stuff.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#29

Post by bc569a80a344f9c »

Conversely, by using their router and modem you move the demarc to the Ethernet port on the inside of the router, which makes getting support significantly easier. I care about that more than control. And I know damn well they ain’t got time to spy on me. Just because appeals to authority are fun, I spent decades as a network engineer and then architect.

Re: Avoid ISP Routers (2024)

#30

Post by veilrap »

OkGoDoIt wrote: post #21

I wish. I own my own modem and router, but Comcast won’t let me use them unless I pay a whole bunch of extra fees or accept a stupidly low monthly data cap. I’ve got my router downstream of theirs which is a bit annoying, especially considering their modem-router combo overheats and needs to be rebooted via unplugging power at least once a month. Sadly I have no other options here in San Francisco. My house is not wi…

I'm surprised by this, is Comcast super regional with it's restrictions? I have a Comcast 1gig plan in the Bay Area, and last I checked I get a small ($5?) discount for using my own modem. I've been on the plan for a least a few years now... so alternatively maybe I'm grandfathered in or something? Or maybe some Comcast sales person was lying to you about your options?
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