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Auto-Differentiating Any LLM Workflow: A Farewell to Manual Prompting

arxiv.org

21–30 of 33 posts

Re: Auto-Differentiating Any LLM Workflow: A Farewell to Manual Prompting

#21
post #6

requires a backwards trained llm no? I don't think anyone has pretrained a remotely-close-to-SOTA sized backwards model.

We use gpt4o as the backward model. But I’m excited to try deepseek r1 as it has explicit reasoning available.

We are continuously adding more benchmarks to the paper with UTAustin.

Re: Auto-Differentiating Any LLM Workflow: A Farewell to Manual Prompting

#22
post #17

> - the task of crafting textual inputs to effectively direct LLMs -- remains difficult and labor-intensive Damn, I knew we were lazy but describing prompting as labor-intensive is impressively lazy even to me. Obviously reading the rest of the abstract was too labor intensive for me but I'm hoping I can just hook a probe up to my drool and it can infer my desires from that.

It is labour intensive to optimise a prompt though. Particularly for smaller models.

Setting parameters for any ml model is easy, but we'd call it labour intensive if we expected people to do it manually despite having evals. Instead we have ways of searching for and optimising settings. The methods for that are obvious for small cardinality discrete values or continuous variables. Less so for arbitrary text.

Re: Auto-Differentiating Any LLM Workflow: A Farewell to Manual Prompting

#23
I always find myself baffled by “prompt optimization” frameworks. Do people really find themselves needing random perturbations of a fixed prompt to improve accuracy? It’s my experience that the challenging part of writing a prompt is figuring out what the task you want done is, and understanding which data you need to pass to the model to make the task achievable. None of that can be achieved by “optimizing” the prompt—the hard part is a layer of abstraction upward.

Re: Auto-Differentiating Any LLM Workflow: A Farewell to Manual Prompting

#24
post #23

I always find myself baffled by “prompt optimization” frameworks. Do people really find themselves needing random perturbations of a fixed prompt to improve accuracy? It’s my experience that the challenging part of writing a prompt is figuring out what the task you want done is, and understanding which data you need to pass to the model to make the task achievable. None of that can be achieved by “optimizing” the pro…

depends what you're doing. If you're using ChatGPT via the UI for a one off question, sure. If you're prompting an LLM that is doing a critical task in production millions of times, minor improvements can have significant benefit

Re: Auto-Differentiating Any LLM Workflow: A Farewell to Manual Prompting

#25
post #23

I always find myself baffled by “prompt optimization” frameworks. Do people really find themselves needing random perturbations of a fixed prompt to improve accuracy? It’s my experience that the challenging part of writing a prompt is figuring out what the task you want done is, and understanding which data you need to pass to the model to make the task achievable. None of that can be achieved by “optimizing” the pro…

It's useful in enterprise scenarios where you need a reliable outcome for some kind of programmatic task, and you are dealing with throughput of jobs in the thousands to hundreds of thousands.

Re: Auto-Differentiating Any LLM Workflow: A Farewell to Manual Prompting

#26
post #17

> - the task of crafting textual inputs to effectively direct LLMs -- remains difficult and labor-intensive Damn, I knew we were lazy but describing prompting as labor-intensive is impressively lazy even to me. Obviously reading the rest of the abstract was too labor intensive for me but I'm hoping I can just hook a probe up to my drool and it can infer my desires from that.

It is not labor-intensive if you want a prompt to work in 80%-90% of cases and humans are good at that. But it is labor-intensive if you want to make it to work at 99%. Then you need to go through many cases and "optimize" the prompt, which is the advantage of optimizer.

Re: Auto-Differentiating Any LLM Workflow: A Farewell to Manual Prompting

#27
Holy unnecessary use of terminology to explain a reverse graph traversal. “Loss”, “gradients”, “differentiating”— no! stop!

This must be what AI hype actually is. Complete incoherent language to explain a very straight forward concept.

This is just: LLMs judging intermediate node outputs, and reverse traversing the graph while doing so until it modifies the original prompt.

Re: Auto-Differentiating Any LLM Workflow: A Farewell to Manual Prompting

#28

Holy unnecessary use of terminology to explain a reverse graph traversal. “Loss”, “gradients”, “differentiating”— no! stop! This must be what AI hype actually is. Complete incoherent language to explain a very straight forward concept. This is just: LLMs judging intermediate node outputs, and reverse traversing the graph while doing so until it modifies the original prompt.

i am old enough to remember the opposite: people would try to sell deep learning to the mainstream ML community by pointing out that backprop is just message-passing on a Bayesian network with modified sum/product operations.

Re: Auto-Differentiating Any LLM Workflow: A Farewell to Manual Prompting

#29
post #23

I always find myself baffled by “prompt optimization” frameworks. Do people really find themselves needing random perturbations of a fixed prompt to improve accuracy? It’s my experience that the challenging part of writing a prompt is figuring out what the task you want done is, and understanding which data you need to pass to the model to make the task achievable. None of that can be achieved by “optimizing” the pro…

depends what you're doing. If you're using ChatGPT via the UI for a one off question, sure. If you're prompting an LLM that is doing a critical task in production millions of times, minor improvements can have significant benefit

I have done the latter much more than the former. My experience has been the issues come from inputs that you don’t foresee, not reliability on in-distribution uses (which would be your “training” data for prompt optimization). And the worry is that this kind of optimization would lead to substantive revisions of the guidelines set out in the prompt, which could further compromise performance out of distribution.

To the extent that you need to eke out reliability on the margins, one is vastly better served by actual fine-tuning, which is available both for open-source models and most major proprietary models.

Re: Auto-Differentiating Any LLM Workflow: A Farewell to Manual Prompting

#30
post #28

Holy unnecessary use of terminology to explain a reverse graph traversal. “Loss”, “gradients”, “differentiating”— no! stop! This must be what AI hype actually is. Complete incoherent language to explain a very straight forward concept. This is just: LLMs judging intermediate node outputs, and reverse traversing the graph while doing so until it modifies the original prompt.

i am old enough to remember the opposite: people would try to sell deep learning to the mainstream ML community by pointing out that backprop is just message-passing on a Bayesian network with modified sum/product operations.

Valid point, but at least that was mathematics. This paper isn’t even math, it’s a data control flow masquerading as math.
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