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Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away

#21

Post by bri3d »

I guess I kind of agree with the thesis, although in turn auto technician is gradually becoming an increasingly skilled job and pay is (probably not quickly enough) generally increasing as well. Of course, this is frustrating to consumers as dealer repair costs become astronomical. In some ways the market is working as intended as especially used cars from manufacturers with perceived easier repair and maintenance (Honda, Toyota) now command an enormous premium, at least in the US.

The specific comment is terrible, though:

> Come to find out, all new Elantras use a lens on a servo to adjust the focal point of the light to simulate just having an extra bulb in the head lamp assembly.

It's unlikely this adjusts the focal point, it's more likely it's just a shutter, although this is neither here nor there.

Regardless, this is a normal way to construct high beams with HID bulbs and there's a real engineering reason for this: HID lights shouldn't be short-cycled as they need to warm up before they reach brightness, plus cycling rapidly wears the bulb and ignitors out. So, having a separate bulb is not plausible for HID high beams which need to flip on and off quickly.

Some cars with LED headlights _are_ often switching back to simpler housings without shutters and adjustable lenses, since they're cheaper and easier to build.

This is a case of engineers engineering solutions, not engineers making things "hard" for no reason.

Re: Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away

#22

Post by havblue »

onetokeoverthe wrote: post #2

But seriously, why do modern engineers try to reinvent the wheel for everything?? this x1000. 80%￶ of everything done since '01 has been the result of crap makework bullshit jobs.

So I'm not looking up the numbers for this but to devils advocate...

Acceleration is way up since then, gasoline cars included. Crash tests are better. Collision avoidance and rear views make us safer as well. Reliability probably peaked already though.

Re: Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away

#23

Post by pizzafeelsright »

kogus wrote: post #12
billy99k wrote: post #3

This is also why all of the auto union are against electric cars. Some person working in their garage will no longer be able to work on cars and get a job as a mechanic/technician and instead will need to have the experience of an engineer. It's very similar to the horse/buggy and car arguments of years past.

Serious question: why would auto unions care whether people can work on their cars in their garage or not?

Unions support whatever gets them dues.

Re: Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away

#24

Post by hibikir »

m463 wrote: post #8

I think cars will become either disposable or large assemblies will need to be replaced in full. I'm reminded of how the tv repairman disappeared. TVs too integrated to fix easily, too complicated to fix economically.

The integration also leads ro low prices though: A bug trinitron used to be $1500-$2000. Today you can get a 4k TV that is twice as big, much cheaper to run, and beats the 1080i that the largest tubes could support 20 years ago. The lower upfront coat just wins, especially when technology keeps improving so fast you'd rather get the new thing than repair the old one at, say, half the price

Re: Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away

#26

Post by pizzafeelsright »

havblue wrote: post #22
onetokeoverthe wrote: post #2

But seriously, why do modern engineers try to reinvent the wheel for everything?? this x1000. 80%￶ of everything done since '01 has been the result of crap makework bullshit jobs.

So I'm not looking up the numbers for this but to devils advocate... Acceleration is way up since then, gasoline cars included. Crash tests are better. Collision avoidance and rear views make us safer as well. Reliability probably peaked already though.

Reliability peaked 2016. I would imagine if it stripped all the electronics you would find wonderfully tuned mechanical parts.

I am not a mechanic but modular systems are great. Transmission and engine. That's all I want in computers to be involved in.

Re: Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away

#27

Post by ghaff »

germinalphrase wrote: post #16
neuralRiot wrote: post #11

The “enshitification” applies to everything, as basic functionality is harder or almost impossible to improve features are added as a sales driver together with lower price points, as you can imagine corners needs to be cut as the metrics take in account sales AND profit. General public doesn’t take in account (they’ve driven to think that way) durability or repairability, they just pay a lease so cars have become di…

This emphasis on leasing must be a short term fixation. Once companies move onto more mature generations of vehicles, the upgrade cycle will lengthen pushing more people toward ownership.

Leasing is mostly just a financing model for people who like to have new cars. It hasn't been economically sound for individuals maybe ever. The shortest I've owned a new car was 5 years and that's because it was a dog from Dodge.

Exception may be some European cars which have a reputation for very expensive dealer maintenance after the warranty period.

Re: Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away

#28

Post by nickff »

jcgrillo wrote: post #15

I was seriously considering buying an Ineos Grenadier because I wanted a nice, modern, safe solid axle 4x4 with decent towing capacity that'll last 50 years or so, but the complexity of that B57/58 and the ZF 8spd, let alone all the other electronic trash like parking sensors, lane sensors, etc scared me off. Theoretically I might be able to keep it running on that timescale with standalone controllers for the transm…

>"So I bought an 80 Series Toyota. It only gets 1mpg less than the Grenadier. 30 years, all that complexity, and we gained 1mpg."

The Grenadier complies with many emissions, collision, and other regulatory requirements than the Toyota, and it probably costs less than the series 80 did new (compensated for inflation).

Re: Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away

#29

Post by dotancohen »

jcgrillo wrote: post #15

I was seriously considering buying an Ineos Grenadier because I wanted a nice, modern, safe solid axle 4x4 with decent towing capacity that'll last 50 years or so, but the complexity of that B57/58 and the ZF 8spd, let alone all the other electronic trash like parking sensors, lane sensors, etc scared me off. Theoretically I might be able to keep it running on that timescale with standalone controllers for the transm…

  > 30 years, all that complexity, and we gained 1mpg.
We also got far lower tailpipe emissions, less expensive manufacturing processes, far better rust prevention, and far better passenger and pedestrian safety features. Not to mention a more comfortable ride, almost zero water intrusion, lower cabin noise and vibration, less wind and tire noise, and longer lasting consumables such as plugs, oil, tires, and filters.

Re: Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away

#30

Post by jcgrillo »

tonymet wrote: post #20

Transportation has a higher demand for reliability and maintainability than our entertainment devices. Not every "innovation" is positive. A 2% efficiency gain with 300% maintenance cost and 25% lifespan is a major loss. Let's act like responsible engineers here and remember what our job is. We are supposed to be creating tools with longevity & utility that improve welfare. We are not here to create toys and infotain…

> We are supposed to be creating tools with longevity & utility that improve welfare. We are not here to create toys and infotainment for people.

The same can be said for b2b SaaS (which is where I work), and yet...

For some reason we've lost the core concept of what makes a tool good. I think there are a few components (not an exhaustive list):

1. When you are using a tool it disappears. You don't know you're using it.

2. It grows with you and doesn't infantilize you. As you get more skilled it gets more useful, not more limiting.

3. It never changes.

Giving the computer nerds the ability to change and tweak tools while they're in the customer's hand has yielded disastrous consequences. Now everything is a subscription and users are treated like idiots.

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