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On the business of e-mail clients / Sparrow

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Re: On the business of e-mail clients / Sparrow

#21
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A dick move is thinking the developers should be indebted to you for life for giving them them a one time payment of money which is less than a couple of rounds of beers.

I just addressed this in a comment on another submission: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4276668 People aren't throwing their arms up because they lost ten dollars; they're doing so because a piece of software that was important in their daily work, and that they enjoyed using and cared about, and probably would have happily continued to pay for, isn't going to be around in a short while. Too bad for them; perha…

The software will still be around. It just won't be improved.

Re: On the business of e-mail clients / Sparrow

#22
post #15

I think Matt Gemmell put it really well: http://mattgemmell.com/2012/07/21/entitlement-and-acquisitio... "Sparrow’s acquisition is a success story. Indie devs make a great product, build a customer-base, and are rewarded with a buy-out from a big company and they get new jobs with that company. It might not be what your particular goal or end-game is, but it is a success. I’m really happy for them." I personally thin…

Yes, legitimate exit strategy, but it's a win-loose story. I don't think that win-loose stories are success stories. Winners: a) Sparrow guys. b) Google. They just killed another e-mail client without their ads. Losers: a) Current users. E-mail client is just another tool, when you descide, you decide for life. Now all Sparrow users must abandon it after some time, unvoluntarily. b) Other indie developers. People wil…

Now they are doomed to work to the end of their lives for big corporation. No one will give them a dime if they ever want to work independently again.

In my experience, ($700M sale to Google in particular) that's just not true. It's quite typical for acquisitions to include either earn-out provisions (you must work for the acquirer for N years or you forfeit some of the purchase price) or retention bonuses (work for N years to earn an additional $X million).

Every investor expects these outcomes; nobody would be surprised or put off to hear that the Sparrow guys are locked up for N years, and nobody I know who invests would view them as damaged goods as a result.

As for Sparrow users being the losers; there are lots of fish (future email clients) in the sea. The popularity of Sparrow is evidence of a market need. Whether any email client author can make real money meeting that need is another question.

Re: On the business of e-mail clients / Sparrow

#23
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just addressed this in a comment on another submission: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4276668 People aren't throwing their arms up because they lost ten dollars; they're doing so because a piece of software that was important in their daily work, and that they enjoyed using and cared about, and probably would have happily continued to pay for, isn't going to be around in a short while. Too bad for them; perha…

The software will still be around. It just won't be improved.

The developers haven't specified a support and maintenance period, and unmaintained software being "around" isn't a good thing. See my other comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4276988

Re: On the business of e-mail clients / Sparrow

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that silly? It goes both ways. As a developer you might not care about the happiness of users if they are using your software without a license. In this case they valued their own interests in spite of the users' commitment. A dick move in my book.

A dick move is thinking the developers should be indebted to you for life for giving them them a one time payment of money which is less than a couple of rounds of beers.

You are saying that as if they couldn't charge for upgrades.

Re: On the business of e-mail clients / Sparrow

#26
post #10

Offtopic: made me proud to see gist.io on a submission domain.

Well, the Google font he used look like crap on my computer and gist.io doesn't work with Readability as it uses an ajax call to fetch the content.

Hey, MVP. I'm working on improvements.

Re: On the business of e-mail clients / Sparrow

#27
post #10

Offtopic: made me proud to see gist.io on a submission domain.

Feature request: allow me to login with my github account and see some usage stats like nr. of views :-)

Logged—I'm keeping track of feature requests at http://github.com/idan/gistio/issues

Re: On the business of e-mail clients / Sparrow

#28
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A dick move is thinking the developers should be indebted to you for life for giving them them a one time payment of money which is less than a couple of rounds of beers.

I just addressed this in a comment on another submission: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4276668 People aren't throwing their arms up because they lost ten dollars; they're doing so because a piece of software that was important in their daily work, and that they enjoyed using and cared about, and probably would have happily continued to pay for, isn't going to be around in a short while. Too bad for them; perha…

Exactly this. The financial investment is not the issue here, it's the investment of time and mental energy into integrating the tool into my workflow and becoming dependent on it. I do not expect them to develop new features indefinitely for free, but I would like it to continue to be supported and developed, even if that means a new paid release every year or so. I'd gladly continue paying for new major releases.

As it is, we'll probably get a compatibility release for anything that may break with the next OS update and not much beyond that. Come several years from now and it may simply not work anymore because of an OS change. That's my primary concern. Being abandonware with an unspecified, vague promise of critical fixes makes it seem questionable whether there's any value in continuing to use it vs. investing time in switching to another tool (of which there are few to none which work perfectly for my particular workflow) up front before it does inevitably stop working down the road.

Re: On the business of e-mail clients / Sparrow

#29
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, legitimate exit strategy, but it's a win-loose story. I don't think that win-loose stories are success stories. Winners: a) Sparrow guys. b) Google. They just killed another e-mail client without their ads. Losers: a) Current users. E-mail client is just another tool, when you descide, you decide for life. Now all Sparrow users must abandon it after some time, unvoluntarily. b) Other indie developers. People wil…

I think (b) and (c) are overly dramatic here. Doomed to work to the end of their lives for a big corporation? These are the guys that just sold their 5 person company for $25M. I don't think people will stop buying indie software on account of this either. The Internet likes to make big news out of these kinds of things, but forgets just as quickly.

Yes, indeed - I tend to agree with you. I think people are over dramatizing this sale probably because they were tied emotionally. This is a good thing actually, it means that there is still a huge opportunity for email clients and people are more likely to switch if a good client emerge. (I know I would).

I also think that this sale is not a bad thing necessarly. It won't stop us from spending more money on software, on the contrary. I think that if there are more exits available for indie developers, more developers might opt to go the indie route in the future knowing they might have a chance at getting acquired and thus having more developers launching great software.

Again, I don't think the Sparrow team made a mistake and I applaud them for selling their company and joining a 'corporate', if that is what they wanted to do - good for them. I'll surely buy more software from them in the future.

(I'll probably get downvoted to the ground like my other comments on that thread for having somewhat different views from the mob).

Re: On the business of e-mail clients / Sparrow

#30

The "it is working right now, you didn't lose anything" line keeps popping up. What if I'm not completely happy, it doesn't work as expected, there are bugs to be fixed, performance to improve? And what happens when there is a major change in the OS that requires significant updates to continue working? Is bringing the SaaS model to the desktop a solution? It's only going to make things worse for users, now you don't…

I tend to disagree with that statement.

"Companies have thrived on "one-off" sales for decades. Want more money? Develop something new, the work is already paid off."

Not because this is wrong, but because the implication of that statement means that we're doing more wrong to the indie developers than good.

This is right that companies are thriving on one-off sales but from my observation the companies in question are big companies with lot of marketing muscle backing their products and not the indie developers.

If you think about it, you'll need to have a huge distribution to reach more and more customers and keep that recurring income you need to keep your business afloat.

Some companies opt to roll out updates or new version for an additional price. Some are trying to upsell some support licenses to earn more money on top of the customers who need more personal and frequent support (and possibley have the financial means).

I keep looking at indie developers who release great software but their price it too low, and have problem distributing it (either because this is a nice market or either because they're doing a piss job at it).

They sell a few hundred of copies and then sales just halt, what do you think happen next? They close shop and stop development and support on the product. The result is the same as what happened with Sparrow but in that case the developers are financially broke and need to get back to corporate life against their will.

Now I don't mean we need to agree to a SaaS model or something, I just say that we need to aknowledge the problem, If developers have trouble monetizing their software (but are still doing a great job at it) and then end up selling their companies to bigger companies, this is great for our eco-system.

It means more people will give it a try in the future knowing that if they utterly fail at marketing their products, they can still sell their companies and what they build to a bigger company who will know how to capitalize on their hard work.

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