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AWS will discontinue support for AWS App Mesh

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Re: AWS will discontinue support for AWS App Mesh

#21

Post by donavanm »

pluto_modadic wrote: post #15
donavanm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three problems with this approach. 1. The ongoing “ktlo” (keep the lights on) maintenance cost for a minimal public aws service is on the order of 6 SDEs. Theres a constant stream of security and integration improvements like new IAM policy features, KMS handling, billing & metering, console chrome, docs, etc. These are generally nonnegotiable to keep _any_ sort of consistency across AWS. This is discounting most ope…

explaining that KTLO requires 6 SDEs is something I wish every executive knew.

It definitely scales of complexity/surface area, and Id say that straight number is a lower bounds fixed cost that you might see from an unsuccessful “small” service. In larger orgs its better a percentage, because its relative to overall investment/growth. My personal goal would be 20% ktlo, usually much closer to 40% in practice. All based on my personal experience doing the cloud thing across 2 companies for 15 years or so.

And I will give credit to AMZN/AWS, of old at least, that the above would be common knowledge with an expectation of much more org specific details for anyone sr manager/PE through VP whod be involved in roadmaps, HC allocation, etc.

Re: AWS will discontinue support for AWS App Mesh

#22

Post by koromak »

scarface_74 wrote: post #18

The one service that is not dead yet. But is smelling funny is CodePipeline. It is so bad and they’ve already discontinued CodeCommit (the very bad hosted git service), Cloud9 (hosted IDE that is based on VSCode even though they would never admit it externally) and CodeStar.

Cognito feels like its bones are grinding together

Re: AWS will discontinue support for AWS App Mesh

#23

Post by Spivak »

graemep wrote: post #19
darkwater wrote: post #8

Yes, there is a long migration period (almost 2 years). Yes, if you are paying for support, they will help you a lot with the migration. But if you are using a (costly) managed service it's because you don't want the hurdle of managing the service. Migrating off something is instead probably the most time consuming thing in a service lifecycle. So, even if it is normal to sunset products and people deal with it all t…

> But if you are using a (costly) managed service it's because you don't want the hurdle of managing the service. On the other hand part of the trade offs of using such services is that you have no control of when they will become unavailable. Its not just normal, its expected.

I doubt very many businesses have anything but a surface level "vaguely gestures toward Azure maybe" plan for if EC2 ever shuts down.

Re: AWS will discontinue support for AWS App Mesh

#24

Post by scarface_74 »

koromak wrote: post #22
scarface_74 wrote: post #18

The one service that is not dead yet. But is smelling funny is CodePipeline. It is so bad and they’ve already discontinued CodeCommit (the very bad hosted git service), Cloud9 (hosted IDE that is based on VSCode even though they would never admit it externally) and CodeStar.

Cognito feels like its bones are grinding together

They can’t really get rid of Cognito. It’s the authentication/authorization platform for external users. There is no migration path that will seamlessly transfer user names and passwords to other mainstream services like CodeCommit.

Re: AWS will discontinue support for AWS App Mesh

#25

Post by graemep »

Spivak wrote: post #23
graemep wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if you are using a (costly) managed service it's because you don't want the hurdle of managing the service. On the other hand part of the trade offs of using such services is that you have no control of when they will become unavailable. Its not just normal, its expected.

I doubt very many businesses have anything but a surface level "vaguely gestures toward Azure maybe" plan for if EC2 ever shuts down.

Most SMEs do not even seem to have backups with another provider.

I cannot see EC2 being shut down but other services might be, and there are all sorts of other issues. The idea that a cloud provider will just take care of everything is delusional. You still have work to do. It might be less work, but its there.

There was an Australian pension provider that recently had an issue with their main cloud account and services shut down. Luckily the regulator required they had backups with a different provider so they were able to restore everything. This is a business running something like AUD 125bn of other people's money.

https://www.theregister.com/2024/05/09/unisuper_google_cloud...

Re: AWS will discontinue support for AWS App Mesh

#26

Post by bastawhiz »

koromak wrote: post #22
scarface_74 wrote: post #18

The one service that is not dead yet. But is smelling funny is CodePipeline. It is so bad and they’ve already discontinued CodeCommit (the very bad hosted git service), Cloud9 (hosted IDE that is based on VSCode even though they would never admit it externally) and CodeStar.

Cognito feels like its bones are grinding together

If you run internal apps on ECS, cognito effectively gives you beyondcorp for free. Being able to put cognito as a rule in your load balancer is choice. I wouldn't use it for anything else, though.

Re: AWS will discontinue support for AWS App Mesh

#27

Post by genewitch »

pluto_modadic wrote: post #15
donavanm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three problems with this approach. 1. The ongoing “ktlo” (keep the lights on) maintenance cost for a minimal public aws service is on the order of 6 SDEs. Theres a constant stream of security and integration improvements like new IAM policy features, KMS handling, billing & metering, console chrome, docs, etc. These are generally nonnegotiable to keep _any_ sort of consistency across AWS. This is discounting most ope…

explaining that KTLO requires 6 SDEs is something I wish every executive knew.

are we assuming only 9-5? 2.3 SDE could do that, but i don't get 6. a 24/7 operation needs 2FTE and 1 PTE per shift, and there are three shifts.

And i suppose "6 SDEs" for a service that has... what number of MAU or whatever?

me and a great friend of mine split our roles with our "projects", he deals with paid clients, and i deal with our required services (email, matrix, nextcloud, pastebins, misskey, PBXen, wireguard/VPN/Proxying...) and there's just two of us. I can't even think of the last time we had downtime, except at the tail-end of last year, one or the other of us caused a fault in proxmox, where commands were no longer issuing, and we had to do a reboot and fsck, the drill.

I understand at "AWS" scale obviously there's going to be more fires than 1 or two people can put out, but 6 SDEs is over 2 million in compensation all told for amazon, right?

So i guess what i am asking for is context. I've run stuff with hundreds of millions of monthly unique (for a paycheck). That company had over a billion uniques across all of their verticals 14 years ago. One network admin (like senior, but still). When i was there, there were 4 DBAs. there was 1 who could deal with developers, the oracle/postgresql guy who is one of my favorite humans ever - he could convert C-level grunts into sql queries or whatever it is they do. Then there was a part time mariadb; and then a full time Oracle DBA for just 1 site. I'm really straining to remember who else was basically infra/ops and it was less than 6[^1] of us for the whole company. We did have a NOC in another country but prior to my arrival all they were really trained to know how to do was page the correct person in the US. Before i left, 3 of the NOC people moved to the US and started working at the office i did.

If you know anyone else that's worked for this company, you'd know. If you haven't used one of their sites today, you probably will this week.

sibling and other comments note that amazon has "consistent look and feel and management and..." so maybe all that "busywork" takes 6 full times?

[^1] i don't count the DBA team as KTLO since i can only think of a single instance when i had to be on a conference and they also were. hurricane in Va!

Re: AWS will discontinue support for AWS App Mesh

#28

Post by adamc »

usr1106 wrote: post #12
DVassallo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an opportunity cost. Since they can't have infinite employees, their current employees are better allocated to other things.

For them it's 0.00...1% of their business. For a small customer who deployed on their service it might be 30% or more of their development budget. Of course that's the way corporations do business. But that's why as a small one you can't really trust any of them. You can just place bets and sometimes you lose.

To put it another way, it is an implicit cost of using AWS: You have to have contingency plans to cope with discontinued services, and you need to be able to realistically execute those plans. I think it is just another reason that AWS isn't as good a deal as it might initially appear to be for small businesses. (Larger organizations may have a better chance of amortizing these costs over many projects.)

Re: AWS will discontinue support for AWS App Mesh

#29

Post by adamc »

gazchop wrote: post #13

Feels like Amazon are turning into Microsoft slowly. Try everything, spread themselves too thin and then shitcan it later. I am reluctant to use anything other than their core IaaS and EKS stuff. Some of the ancillary stuff appears to be maintained by two drunk guys in a shed somewhere as well.

I think the economics drive the same way for all companies.

Re: AWS will discontinue support for AWS App Mesh

#30

Post by UltraSane »

scarface_74 wrote: post #24
koromak wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cognito feels like its bones are grinding together

They can’t really get rid of Cognito. It’s the authentication/authorization platform for external users. There is no migration path that will seamlessly transfer user names and passwords to other mainstream services like CodeCommit.

especially since they won't support exporting password hashes.
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