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89% of 2024 sexual offences in England went unsolve

theguardian.com

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Re: 89% of 2024 sexual offences in England went unsolve

#21

Post by KennyBlanken »

o11c wrote: post #19
orra wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is being deservedly downvoted. It's misinformation. Here's the statutory threshold for harassment: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/40/section/1

I don't see a definition or threshold there other than a tautology. Can you quote one into this thread? And it does seem a reasonable assumption that "harassment" would outnumber the other crimes mentioned. A brief glance at other sources suggests a ratio between 3× and 10×, which is enough to drown out the headline-bait crimes, regardless of whether GP is wrong about the definition.

> it does seem a reasonable assumption that "harassment" would outnumber the other crimes mentioned.

No it doesn't. The incident rates and under-reporting rates are all different.

Further: t's not the responsibility of the person you replied to, to provide evidence negating the original claim, which is completely unsupported and comes from someone who clearly has at best poor education on the subject and at worst is intentionally misrepresenting standards for what will be considered enough to take a report, much less investigate and attempt to prosecute.

Re: 89% of 2024 sexual offences in England went unsolve

#22

Post by poisonwomb »

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #2

As information continues to come to light is it actually concievable that the government is actively avoiding investigations that might put the government's immigration policies into question? That seems to be the unstated in the article. Has the case load dramatically increased, as in were there many more offenses? Were resources cut or reallocated? Did the definition of what counts as a sexual offense or reporting…

Police funding was cut significantly after the financial crisis and is only just being restored to pre-GFC levels: https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/publication/perfor...

The number of reported sexual offences has increased by double digits over the last reporting period, and did the same in the last one: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeand...

There are a variety of factors at play behind the rise in reports, including high profile cases such as the abduction, rape and murder of Sarah Everard by a serving police officer, in addition to massive coverage of historic sexual abuse by public figures like Jimmy Savile. There have been multiple high profile campaigns for women’s safety encouraging them to come forward and report cases of sexualised violence.

So despite the police force certainly allocating more resources to deal with these cases, the increase outstrips this. In addition, sexualised violence is notoriously difficult to prosecute beyond a reasonable doubt due to the ‘he said she said’ nature of a lot of the evidence and the delay in many of the victims coming forward.

Your point about immigration has a simple answer; it’s not a factor. This talking point serves to take very real social problems the country faces and use them to score political points by distorting the facts.

Case in point the grooming gangs scandal which was painted as a Pakistani muslim problem when it turns out Asians are UNDERrepresented and whites are actually OVERrepresented in the actual figures (88% of offences were committed by whites with them making up 83% of the population, south asians committed 7% of offences while making up 9% of the population)

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/religionglobalsociety/2025/01/the-gr...

Educate yourself and stop using my country’s problems to further your political agenda.

Re: 89% of 2024 sexual offences in England went unsolve

#23

Post by orra »

o11c wrote: post #19
orra wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is being deservedly downvoted. It's misinformation. Here's the statutory threshold for harassment: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/40/section/1

I don't see a definition or threshold there other than a tautology. Can you quote one into this thread? And it does seem a reasonable assumption that "harassment" would outnumber the other crimes mentioned. A brief glance at other sources suggests a ratio between 3× and 10×, which is enough to drown out the headline-bait crimes, regardless of whether GP is wrong about the definition.

OP puts up a straw man that criminal harassment is any trivial slight in the eye of the alleged victim. However, for an instance of harassment to be criminal harassment, the perpetrator must [1(b)] know their behaviour is harassment. Morever, if perpetrator is behaving reasonably, then it's not harassment [3(c)].

Section 7 is also key to statutory interpretation. 7(b) gives persuasive examples (you had not seen these and so called section 1 tautological). Morever, 7(3) means that the criminal offence only applies to repeat offenders.

Re: 89% of 2024 sexual offences in England went unsolve

#24

Post by poisonwomb »

callamdelaney wrote: post #16
ltbarcly3 wrote: post #2

As information continues to come to light is it actually concievable that the government is actively avoiding investigations that might put the government's immigration policies into question? That seems to be the unstated in the article. Has the case load dramatically increased, as in were there many more offenses? Were resources cut or reallocated? Did the definition of what counts as a sexual offense or reporting…

I strongly suspect that it's harder to find suspects to charge who have fewer local links and less documentation. I also suspect the CPS is probably failing to bring cases in a level and fair way, why bother when the judge will let them off without jail time because of 'cultural differences'? [0][1]. We know that migrants are 350% more likely to be arrested for sexual crimes than British citizens [2], but that's only…

Do you have a source more credible than right wing tabloids for this?

Re: 89% of 2024 sexual offences in England went unsolve

#26

Post by throw310822 »

What we definitely haven't been lacking in the past ten years at least is high emphasis on the importance of prosecuting sexual harassment and violence, especially in countries such as the UK. I think this excludes an underestimation of the importance of these crimes.

And since the amount of resources dedicated to solving each case is proportional to its gravity, the fact that almost 90% of these crimes are unsolved probably means that most of them are minor and/ or lacking principal suspects, witnesses or evidence.

Re: 89% of 2024 sexual offences in England went unsolve

#27

Post by poisonwomb »

xp84 wrote: post #13
ltbarcly3 wrote: post #2

As information continues to come to light is it actually concievable that the government is actively avoiding investigations that might put the government's immigration policies into question? That seems to be the unstated in the article. Has the case load dramatically increased, as in were there many more offenses? Were resources cut or reallocated? Did the definition of what counts as a sexual offense or reporting…

The same government which has declared "Asian grooming gangs" to be a 'racist' term for gangs of Pakistani immigrants who committed hundreds of sex crimes against young girls? It's certainly a possibility. [1] https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/islamophobia-racis...

[flagged]

Re: 89% of 2024 sexual offences in England went unsolve

#28

Post by dyauspitr »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #17
dyauspitr wrote: post #5

[flagged]

I'm downvoting because you're dredging up the same old tiresome over-reporting / overzealous prosecution claims with no evidence (when there is in fact extensive evidence these sorts of crimes are under-reported.) Also because you ignored "grievous bodily harm, sexual assault, stalking, rape" to cherry pick harassment. Also because you claim without evidence that harassment, and a very weak form of harassment, are a…

I didn’t. I specifically put stalking and harassment in a separate group because I believe their inclusion with the other serious crimes makes the stats look so dismal. I did try to find the breakdown of which types of crimes remained unsolved and couldn’t find anything.

From your link harassment can be the following phone calls letters emails visits

All of those seem highly subjective and are specifically relevant to my comment because they can be numerous and are very hard to track down thus leading to low solve rates.

Re: 89% of 2024 sexual offences in England went unsolve

#29

Post by dyauspitr »

tyre wrote: post #8
dyauspitr wrote: post #5

[flagged]

What percentage of these are complaints about staring on a train?

I don’t know, I tried to find stats but couldn’t. Harassment can be phone calls, emails, text messages etc. which can be very hard to track down and numerous so they clog up systems.

Re: 89% of 2024 sexual offences in England went unsolve

#30

Post by o11c »

orra wrote: post #23
o11c wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see a definition or threshold there other than a tautology. Can you quote one into this thread? And it does seem a reasonable assumption that "harassment" would outnumber the other crimes mentioned. A brief glance at other sources suggests a ratio between 3× and 10×, which is enough to drown out the headline-bait crimes, regardless of whether GP is wrong about the definition.

OP puts up a straw man that criminal harassment is any trivial slight in the eye of the alleged victim. However, for an instance of harassment to be criminal harassment, the perpetrator must [1(b)] know their behaviour is harassment. Morever, if perpetrator is behaving reasonably, then it's not harassment [3(c)]. Section 7 is also key to statutory interpretation. 7(b) gives persuasive examples (you had not seen these…

Ah, a complete link (though including some crimes other than harassment) is:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/40/crossheading/en...

I see your 7(3) reference, but 7(b) does not exist, and none of the 7(###)(b) seems to give examples of any kind?

7(2) seems very broad though, from a layman's reading:

> References to harassing a person include alarming the person or causing the person distress.

and this alone is probably enough to cause at least some fraction of the reports to not actually meet the threshold for a conviction. So I don't see enough to prove the ancestor post "misinformation".

---

Still, the actual definition is orthogonal to my point (as opposed to whatever else the top-level poster tried to make a point of), which is that statistics are still skewed to the point of uselessness by the fact that "harassment" appears to be the overwhelming majority by whatever definition is being used.

If you want to make a reasonable statistical claim about assault of either kind, this source is useless.

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