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Palm did it: better experience than Apple

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Re: Palm did it: better experience than Apple

#21

Post by anatoli »

bprater wrote: post #19

I love my iPhone. But giving developers the option to cook up apps in HTML/JS is a very slick move. I don't know how it'll play out, but any average web developer will be able to immediately pump out an app without breaking open a iPhone SDK tome. I don't know if it's possible to advance against the AppStore line of offense, but it's a seriously smart move. I think their next coup should be to create an "open framewo…

While I don't disagree that there is something nifty about HTML/CSS/JS apps, I think we've all seen that this is not enough. Remember, first iPhone was in the same position - no SDK, just "widgets" and that didn't exactly fly with the developers. As somebody who's developed some widgets, I can say that there just isn't enough to go on in JavaScript to create full-powered apps, such as the ones available on iPhone now.

More importantly, in regards to this:

"any average web developer will be able to immediately pump out an app without breaking open a iPhone SDK tome."

Any average web developer can pump out a widget for iPhone, afaik, so I would disagree that this is an advantage that the Palm Pre has.

Re: Palm did it: better experience than Apple

#22

Post by halo »

swombat wrote: post #10

I hate to sound like an Apple fanboy, but you need more than a pretty phone to dethrone the iPhone. The App store is the best thing since sliced bread. The ever-growing developer enthusiasm for the iPhone is a huge factor too. And if webOS is basically web-based, that means that all of Palm's apps will be available on the iPhone, but none of the iPhone's apps will be available on the Palm Pre. Not exactly a winning p…

They don't need to "dethrone the iPhone" to succeed, in the same way Apple didn't need to "dethrone Windows" to succeed. There's no reason why multiple manufacturers can't all have viable businesses in the same market space.

Re: Palm did it: better experience than Apple

#23

Post by jemmons »

rbanffy wrote: post #18
jemmons wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You are counting on webOS being nothing more than a WebKit browser. I am sure that's not the case." Even if it's not, the fact remains that apps written in HTML+CSS+javascript (what's more, HTML+CSS+JS tweaked to run on WebKit) will be trivial to port to the iPhone -- not just because the iPhone has a fantastic webkit browser, but because the apps themselves will be trivial. The Pre, at best, will be a phone of widg…

Unless you have hooks for deeper functionality inside the JavaScript interpreter used to run the application logic. And I somewhat doubt Palm will refrain to release a full SDK for the native OS.

"Unless you have hooks for deeper functionality"

Functionality like what? Will it let you import physics libraries written in C? Give you access to OpenGL in javascript? What about networking stacks? What if I need OpenSSL? At a certain point you end up reinventing an awful lot of wheels even if the hooks are all there.

Re: Palm did it: better experience than Apple

#24

Post by anthonyrubin »

mdasen wrote: post #6

I hope so. As a Sprint customer, I've been waiting for such a device. As a general consumer, I'm glad that others are challenging Apple. I love Apple, but I also like others to be able to challenge them. In my opinion, no one was able to match the iPod for ease of use and size. The Palm pre is at least dimensionally competitive at a mere 2grams heavier and only 15% greater volume (a real keyboard takes up some space)…

There are numerous Android devices planned for the near future. I own a G1 and I see it as a development platform. The hardware leaves something to be desired, but Android is actually quite nice.

Re: Palm did it: better experience than Apple

#26

Post by lallysingh »

jemmons wrote: post #23
rbanffy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you have hooks for deeper functionality inside the JavaScript interpreter used to run the application logic. And I somewhat doubt Palm will refrain to release a full SDK for the native OS.

"Unless you have hooks for deeper functionality" Functionality like what? Will it let you import physics libraries written in C? Give you access to OpenGL in javascript? What about networking stacks? What if I need OpenSSL? At a certain point you end up reinventing an awful lot of wheels even if the hooks are all there.

I think the mini-revolution Palm's pulled off isn't being understood. They've implemented a full SDK in HTML/CSS/JS. Unlike the helpless widgets of the apple-side, Palm's presenting their entire API as a set of extensions to a pretty forward-looking HTML stack.

From what I've seen:

- Graphics: HTML5 canvas. No word yet on if it's got the 3D support that's been planned for that canvas. But 2D access for graphics is pretty certain.

- Other than that, HTML5 local storage for your app data. They even have javascript access to old palm .pdb files.

- Javascript access to the contacts, calendar, phone, etc. APIs

- The app is stored locally, and can run without network access.

- As for networking/ssl... it's a web app written in HTML/AJAX, think about it :-)

Re: Palm did it: better experience than Apple

#27

Post by bprater »

anatoli wrote: post #21
bprater wrote: post #19

I love my iPhone. But giving developers the option to cook up apps in HTML/JS is a very slick move. I don't know how it'll play out, but any average web developer will be able to immediately pump out an app without breaking open a iPhone SDK tome. I don't know if it's possible to advance against the AppStore line of offense, but it's a seriously smart move. I think their next coup should be to create an "open framewo…

While I don't disagree that there is something nifty about HTML/CSS/JS apps, I think we've all seen that this is not enough. Remember, first iPhone was in the same position - no SDK, just "widgets" and that didn't exactly fly with the developers. As somebody who's developed some widgets, I can say that there just isn't enough to go on in JavaScript to create full-powered apps, such as the ones available on iPhone now…

Widget, maybe. I was specifically talking about something akin to a "native" app. You need hooks to the OS, period, for developers to be happy.

Maybe we need a new word for HTML/JS/CSS apps that have OS-specific hooks. Widget is a horrible word.

Re: Palm did it: better experience than Apple

#28

Post by wavesplash »

swombat wrote: post #10

I hate to sound like an Apple fanboy, but you need more than a pretty phone to dethrone the iPhone. The App store is the best thing since sliced bread. The ever-growing developer enthusiasm for the iPhone is a huge factor too. And if webOS is basically web-based, that means that all of Palm's apps will be available on the iPhone, but none of the iPhone's apps will be available on the Palm Pre. Not exactly a winning p…

You're an Apple fanboy :) 5 million devices sold isn't a dominant market position in the mobile market. It's a drop in the ocean. The market is still wide open and Palm may just have invented the best crossover device for casual users (small form factor) and business users (real keyboard).

The app store issue is moot. There isn't a killer must have app that would keep people on the Apple platform. Facebook is the killer app for the under 35 crowd and it's integrated into the Palm. The iPhone could take note.

It won't be better? I find the iPhone annoying, large and clunky. I'd buy a Pre today if it was out.

Re: Palm did it: better experience than Apple

#29

Post by gtufano »

lallysingh wrote: post #26
jemmons wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Unless you have hooks for deeper functionality" Functionality like what? Will it let you import physics libraries written in C? Give you access to OpenGL in javascript? What about networking stacks? What if I need OpenSSL? At a certain point you end up reinventing an awful lot of wheels even if the hooks are all there.

I think the mini-revolution Palm's pulled off isn't being understood. They've implemented a full SDK in HTML/CSS/JS. Unlike the helpless widgets of the apple-side, Palm's presenting their entire API as a set of extensions to a pretty forward-looking HTML stack. From what I've seen: - Graphics: HTML5 canvas. No word yet on if it's got the 3D support that's been planned for that canvas. But 2D access for graphics is pr…

Wonderful! I always dreamed of programming phones in HTML/CSS/JS. This is a great step forward from C/C++/ObjC. Joking, of course... but this seems to me the way for trivial apps, given the constraint in a phone-sized OS. I hope to be wrong. Palm has been my first (useful) PDA...

Re: Palm did it: better experience than Apple

#30

Post by Tichy »

swombat wrote: post #10

I hate to sound like an Apple fanboy, but you need more than a pretty phone to dethrone the iPhone. The App store is the best thing since sliced bread. The ever-growing developer enthusiasm for the iPhone is a huge factor too. And if webOS is basically web-based, that means that all of Palm's apps will be available on the iPhone, but none of the iPhone's apps will be available on the Palm Pre. Not exactly a winning p…

I think the app store sucks and my developer enthusiasm has been blown away by iFarts...
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