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Diets high in advanced glycation end products promote insulin resistance

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Re: Diets high in advanced glycation end products promote insulin resistance

#21

Post by eptcyka »

tjohns wrote: post #8
eptcyka wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In short, if it tastes nice and was man-processed, it probably will be bad for you?

That's a good first-order approximation, but is missing some nuance. An example they use is eggs: Pan-fried eggs are listed as high in AGEs, whereas scrambled eggs aren't. Admittedly my diet isn't the best, but I wouldn't have expected a meaningful difference between ordering my eggs scrambled vs sunnyside-up. Or for meat, stewed meat would be healthier than roasted meat. I'm suddenly curious about coffee, now that t…

The browning is what makes food taste great for me, and that is what makes sunny side up eggs be less healthy. If you browned an omlette, it’d have a similar effect, I imagine.

Re: Diets high in advanced glycation end products promote insulin resistance

#22

Post by HumanOstrich »

jawon wrote: post #7

This definition of AGEs is interesting (linked from the article, same site): "Advanced glycation end products (AGEs) form when proteins and fats (lipids) in the body react with sugar (glucose) and become glycated and oxidized." So, maybe it's not so much the Maillard reaction but that sweetened brioche bun used in your fancy hamburger.

That's how AGEs are formed in the body. The article is primarily about dietary intake of AGEs that are formed in high temperatures with certain foods.

Re: Diets high in advanced glycation end products promote insulin resistance

#24

Post by moab »

tjohns wrote: post #8
eptcyka wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In short, if it tastes nice and was man-processed, it probably will be bad for you?

That's a good first-order approximation, but is missing some nuance. An example they use is eggs: Pan-fried eggs are listed as high in AGEs, whereas scrambled eggs aren't. Admittedly my diet isn't the best, but I wouldn't have expected a meaningful difference between ordering my eggs scrambled vs sunnyside-up. Or for meat, stewed meat would be healthier than roasted meat. I'm suddenly curious about coffee, now that t…

Coffee is very low in AGEs as per Table 2 of https://www.jandonline.org/article/S0002-8223(10)00238-5/ful...

Re: Diets high in advanced glycation end products promote insulin resistance

#25

Post by HumanOstrich »

hetthakkar wrote: post #13

Wonder if these negative outcomes still exist if high and low AGE diets were iso-caloric

No, "calories in, calories out" is a popular myth, usually used as a way to insult and degrade people who are overweight.

You could drink your body's caloric needs in gasoline each day, but you'd quickly find out that WHAT you consume affects your body's response too. Biology is surprisingly complex.

Re: Diets high in advanced glycation end products promote insulin resistance

#26

Post by blacksmith_tb »

HumanOstrich wrote: post #25
hetthakkar wrote: post #13

Wonder if these negative outcomes still exist if high and low AGE diets were iso-caloric

No, "calories in, calories out" is a popular myth, usually used as a way to insult and degrade people who are overweight. You could drink your body's caloric needs in gasoline each day, but you'd quickly find out that WHAT you consume affects your body's response too. Biology is surprisingly complex.

I don't think "drink gas" is a reasonable rebuttal, better to actually provide some kind of a reference[1].

1: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/health/to-lose-weight-focus...

Re: Diets high in advanced glycation end products promote insulin resistance

#27

Post by chongli »

jawon wrote: post #7

This definition of AGEs is interesting (linked from the article, same site): "Advanced glycation end products (AGEs) form when proteins and fats (lipids) in the body react with sugar (glucose) and become glycated and oxidized." So, maybe it's not so much the Maillard reaction but that sweetened brioche bun used in your fancy hamburger.

Or that bag of Doritos washed down with a bottle of Mountain Dew!

Re: Diets high in advanced glycation end products promote insulin resistance

#28

Post by dunham »

swiftcoder wrote: post #9
dunham wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The infographic in the article suggests they occur in aged cheeses, fried foods (including chips and french fries), roasted nuts (including peanut butter), and seared tofu. I believe those are all vegetarian staples.

The infographic also blames it on seared meats and fried eggs, so not exclusively an issue for vegetarians. The link to diet in general does seem a little tenuous though?

Yeah, I just thought "Food sources are animal products" might be an inaccurate characterization.

As far as the link to diet goes, I'm not an expert but look at pretty much every report with suspicion unless there is a lot of independent confirmation.

From the outside "meta-analysis" seems like fishing for signal and then jumping on results as causal. But I honestly don't know if these things proceed via scientific method (I have a theory, I've devised this test, etc) or are digging up possible relations between data and then making a story to match whatever pops up.

Re: Diets high in advanced glycation end products promote insulin resistance

#29

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

HumanOstrich wrote: post #25
hetthakkar wrote: post #13

Wonder if these negative outcomes still exist if high and low AGE diets were iso-caloric

No, "calories in, calories out" is a popular myth, usually used as a way to insult and degrade people who are overweight. You could drink your body's caloric needs in gasoline each day, but you'd quickly find out that WHAT you consume affects your body's response too. Biology is surprisingly complex.

Spreading "cope" hurts other people who read it and believe. Bomb-calorimeter energy is an upper bound on what your body can extract from the food, and limiting an upper bound works.

But ok, there is a problem with "CICO": Although true, it does psychologically put "CI" and "CO" on an equal footing -- whereas 90% of your attention really needs to be on "CI". The body is very efficient; exercising doesn't burn much. It's more for the purpose of maintaining some muscle mass as you drop weight. But junk food companies like to skew perception ("balance what you drink and do") to make it seem like a Big Gulp would be ok if only you ran more. Yeah, they're happy to shame and mislead overweight people, so long as they keep buying.

Re: Diets high in advanced glycation end products promote insulin resistance

#30

Post by JumpCrisscross »

narrator wrote: post #15
selbyk wrote: post #3

For others who also don't know what advanced glycation end-products are/are a bit confused by the headline: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_glycation_end-produ... Found in humans, they are bio markers for quite a few diseases, including diabetes (type 2 = insulin resistance). Food sources are animal products. Wiki says vegetarians have been shown to have more than non-vegetarians, discounting dietary reasons…

What's interesting about them is that if you microwave your food, you get fewer of them[1]. That's because they are primarily produced by the mallard reaction which is caused by food, such as bread, getting toasted[2]. The worst foods for this are barbecued stuff. Also, carmel color is very rich in advanced glycation end products, so avoid Diet Coke! [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3704564/ [2] https://e…

> they are primarily produced by the mallard reaction

Hmm, I wonder if the propensity to poach, velvet or steam meats aligns with some of the discrepancies we see in diabetes and longevity among otherwise similarly-eating populations.

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